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Asian countries take a stand against the rich world’s plastic waste

latimes.com

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Re: Asian countries take a stand against the rich world’s plastic waste

#131

Post by dflock »

protonfish wrote: post #72
rishav_sharan wrote: post #69

This is simply a political issue at this point. If there is political will, then we can ban all consumer plastic. We used to live fine without them 40 years ago. We can do so again. Damn the inconvenience. We must plug this at both source and disposal.

If you made a case that this would be better for the environment, which I have yet to see. Plastic waste is not toxic, nor does it use a lot of energy to produce.

> Plastic waste is not toxic

It absolutely is. It breaks down into micro-plastics, which are sub-celluar sized plastic particles. These have a large surface area and are easily absorbed into tissues and cells. They then leech out whatever additives are in that particular piece of plastic - plasticizers, colourings, etc...

Some of these are directly toxic/harmful when released into tissues and cells - and lots of them are endocrine disruptors: molecules with a very similar 3d shape to hormones:

> Endocrine disruptors are chemicals that can interfere with endocrine (or hormone) systems at certain doses. These disruptions can cause cancerous tumors, birth defects, and other developmental disorders.[1] Any system in the body controlled by hormones can be derailed by hormone disruptors. Specifically, endocrine disruptors may be associated with the development of learning disabilities, severe attention deficit disorder, cognitive and brain development problems; deformations of the body (including limbs); breast cancer, prostate cancer, thyroid and other cancers; sexual development problems such as feminizing of males or masculinizing effects on females, etc.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endocrine_disruptor

> The toxins the microplastic leaches into seawater inhibit the growth and photosynthetic efficiency of the bacteria Prochlorococcus, which is responsible for producing an estimated 20 percent of the oxygen we breathe. That means Prochlorococcus is also responsible for 20 percent of carbon capture on this planet (one molecule of carbon goes in, one molecule of oxygen goes out), theoretically spelling trouble for humanity’s quest to keep CO2 out of the atmosphere. This is early research that comes with several big caveats, and also exposes the challenges of studying a threat as new and omnipresent as plastic pollution.

https://www.wired.com/story/ocean-plastics-bacteria/

Etc, etc, etc...

Re: Asian countries take a stand against the rich world’s plastic waste

#132

Post by rlpb »

gingabriska wrote: post #93

I just bought 5 new Prusa i3 MK3 and I print lots of ABS and PETG parts, am I contributed to the plastic problem? Over last 1 month, I ended up using roughly 25KG of plastic.

IMHO, while in the short term using a 3D printer may mean more plastic parts everywhere and therefore more waste, in the long term you're promoting a world of Just In Time part production where it is needed, and that future world will produce less waste.

Re: Asian countries take a stand against the rich world’s plastic waste

#133

Post by solstice »

cortesoft wrote: post #54

There is this strange belief that landfills are taking up a ton of space and we need to reduce landfill usage because of it. This is simply not true. Landfills don't take up much space, we have plenty.

I think there are much more important issues like space: Improperly constructed and maintained landfills (i.e. most of them) leak pollutants into the ground (water) and offgas significant quantities of methane. (No sources handy right now...)

Re: Asian countries take a stand against the rich world’s plastic waste

#134

Post by rlpb »

opportune wrote: post #3

As far as I can understand it, the recycling industry is a well-intentioned waste of resources. It would be much better for the environment for all this waste to be sequestered in a landfill than for people to pay to ship it around the world only for most of it to be dumped or rejected (which, even when the Asian countries in question do accept it, they are likely to do anyway). These materials (plastics) are so chea…

> it will probably never be economical to recycle them

While we're talking in hypotheticals, I think the economics of recycling needs to take into account the negative externality of environmentally safe disposal cost in production. In other words, if we actually priced in the cost of safe disposal into the cost of plastic products, then recycling wouldn't have to be viable economically based on the price of recycled plastic alone. Europe already does this for household electrical waste; there is no reason it cannot be done for plastics.

Re: Asian countries take a stand against the rich world’s plastic waste

#135

Post by toephu2 »

cortesoft wrote: post #54

There is this strange belief that landfills are taking up a ton of space and we need to reduce landfill usage because of it. This is simply not true. Landfills don't take up much space, we have plenty.

Source?

Landfills take up a lot of space. I saw a documentary about it (forgot the name of it). Humans waste so much and the trash keeps piling up. You can only dig so much.

Re: Asian countries take a stand against the rich world’s plastic waste

#136

Post by [deleted] »

tomxor wrote: post #84

I'm fed up of sorting and "recycling" plastic, it's such bullshit, it's a feel good activity for individuals or a check box exercise for governments. If anything it's damaging to continue pretending to recycle plastics, it makes it seem ok to continue producing them. One day in the future it will be banned at the source, packaging will be replaced with something non-hazardous and efficient to recycle or biodegrade, a…

[deleted]

Re: Asian countries take a stand against the rich world’s plastic waste

#138

Post by fooblitzky »

arcticbull wrote: post #73
anon_cow1111 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who rides a bicycle and hikes, glass bottles are the bane of my existence.

Are aluminum bottles problematic? Sigg makes some great ones.

Aluminum bottles/cans are lined with plastic, to prevent the liquids acquiring a metallic taste. Beer cans are usually lined with BPA - which is bad news for your endocrine system. Sigg bottles have recently moved to a BPA-free lining, but it's still plastic.

Re: Asian countries take a stand against the rich world’s plastic waste

#139

Post by fooblitzky »

Scoundreller wrote: post #32
mattmanser wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Get reusable plastic ones and decant then.

I think their concern is others’ disposal of the glass on trails. Edit: though I do dislike the idea of biking with glass bottles, especially in a backpack. A plastic container absorbs impact and can make falls safer. Not so much for a glass container.

Stainless steel is usually a good option - it weighs less than glass and is more robust.

Re: Asian countries take a stand against the rich world’s plastic waste

#140

Post by jlmorton »

toephu2 wrote: post #135
cortesoft wrote: post #54

There is this strange belief that landfills are taking up a ton of space and we need to reduce landfill usage because of it. This is simply not true. Landfills don't take up much space, we have plenty.

Source? Landfills take up a lot of space. I saw a documentary about it (forgot the name of it). Humans waste so much and the trash keeps piling up. You can only dig so much.

Landfills are three dimensional and the Earth is astonishingly large. On millennia timescales, we will never run out of places to put them.

At a depth of 400 feet, the entire US annual trash output is approximately 1,000 acre [1].

There are 37 billion acres on earth. And indeed, much of that is not very habitable land.

And importantly, landfill space is not permanently lost. There are many beautiful parks around the world built atop landfills.

[1] https://science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/green-scienc...

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