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Why Hong Kong Is Still Marching

nytimes.com

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Re: Why Hong Kong Is Still Marching

#61

Post by my_username_is_ »

thedudeabides5 wrote: post #8

Does anyone know the mechanism by which she could be forced to withdraw? Impeachment is usually for breaking the law, not putting forth a bad one...

Withdraw the extradition bill, or forced to step down from office?

The bill is not in the legislature yet, so it is up to her whether the bill gets brought to a vote. It sounds like even pro-Beijing lawmakers are growing weary of this bill, saying that this isn't worth the fight that's being made over it. The Article 23 National Security law is more of a priority for a lot of them, but that was similarly unpopular the last time it was brought up.

The most likely outcome with Lam leaving the position of Chief Executive is for her to resign. This could be on her own accord, because her legislation has proved so unpopular, or because of pressure from Beijing. This is not making Xi look very good--both internally and internationally. One of the most consistent demands of the protesters right now is for her to step down. It would not be surprising for her to do so if these protests continue.

Re: Why Hong Kong Is Still Marching

#62

Post by wybiral »

lawrenceyan wrote: post #50
kumosawa wrote: post #39

I’m from china mainland, and I stand for these protesters. At least, I don’t want them lose the right of fighting for their rights. And btw, even such huge protest happening, there is no report, no discussion in China, even message left on SNS also get censored or vanished. Terrifying. Edit: apologize for uncertain words, it needs add a time limitation. The first protest was happening at 9th June and all Chinese medi…

How common would you say it is for someone living in China to be able to have access to outside information / sites like you? Does everyone mostly understand that the government censors things to such an extreme but because of a fear of being targeted choose to not say anything, or would you say that most people are actually genuinely ignorant?

It's usually viewed as a protective measure more than a mechanism of oppression. And it is protective. If you believe that widespread dissidence could lead to the collapse of your government then preventing that is a necessary evil to ensure your own well being.

So, yeah, most mainlanders are aware of the censorship but it's not always viewed as inherently bad. And not just out of fear of being targeted or something. It's also easier to justify things that way when you're not even sure what exactly is being censored or why, you just assume it's probably for the better.

We allow similar censorship in the US (of things like extremist propaganda or hate speech) with a similar justification. But free speech in the US is rarely an actual threat to the authority of the government itself.

Re: Why Hong Kong Is Still Marching

#63

Post by coupdejarnac »

yibg wrote: post #49
kumosawa wrote: post #39

I’m from china mainland, and I stand for these protesters. At least, I don’t want them lose the right of fighting for their rights. And btw, even such huge protest happening, there is no report, no discussion in China, even message left on SNS also get censored or vanished. Terrifying. Edit: apologize for uncertain words, it needs add a time limitation. The first protest was happening at 9th June and all Chinese medi…

It seems the information flows to certain populations. I work for an US based company with an office in mainland China. Pretty much everyone in the office knows about the stuff happening in Hong Kong.

Is the internet at your office filtered? I've heard of offices for foreign companies being unfiltered, but I haven't seen it firsthand.

Re: Why Hong Kong Is Still Marching

#64

Post by catpack »

dis-sys wrote: post #59
kumosawa wrote: post #39

I’m from china mainland, and I stand for these protesters. At least, I don’t want them lose the right of fighting for their rights. And btw, even such huge protest happening, there is no report, no discussion in China, even message left on SNS also get censored or vanished. Terrifying. Edit: apologize for uncertain words, it needs add a time limitation. The first protest was happening at 9th June and all Chinese medi…

I don't know what is your motivation to use a throwaway account to publicly lie on this... Don't get hurt too much for seeing the reports below that can be publicly verified by everyone. Coverage from sohu.com, one of the largest news sites - https://www.sohu.com/a/320190989_114731 http://www.sohu.com/a/320742090_223357 http://www.sohu.com/a/320247941_419342 Coverage by tencent's QQ News: https://new.qq.com/cmsn/TWF2…

[flagged]

Re: Why Hong Kong Is Still Marching

#65

Post by whoevercares »

dis-sys wrote: post #59
kumosawa wrote: post #39

I’m from china mainland, and I stand for these protesters. At least, I don’t want them lose the right of fighting for their rights. And btw, even such huge protest happening, there is no report, no discussion in China, even message left on SNS also get censored or vanished. Terrifying. Edit: apologize for uncertain words, it needs add a time limitation. The first protest was happening at 9th June and all Chinese medi…

I don't know what is your motivation to use a throwaway account to publicly lie on this... Don't get hurt too much for seeing the reports below that can be publicly verified by everyone. Coverage from sohu.com, one of the largest news sites - https://www.sohu.com/a/320190989_114731 http://www.sohu.com/a/320742090_223357 http://www.sohu.com/a/320247941_419342 Coverage by tencent's QQ News: https://new.qq.com/cmsn/TWF2…

Shuhhhhhhhh you break the social norm

Re: Why Hong Kong Is Still Marching

#66

Post by fopen64 »

xiaochuanSun wrote: post #52
lawrenceyan wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How common would you say it is for someone living in China to be able to have access to outside information / sites like you? Does everyone mostly understand that the government censors things to such an extreme but because of a fear of being targeted choose to not say anything, or would you say that most people are actually genuinely ignorant?

There are some Chinese students who are studying in US universities support the CN government on this event. Even though they have access to the information, they still choose not to believe it.

They should be sent back.

Re: Why Hong Kong Is Still Marching

#67

Post by Danieru »

nine_k wrote: post #48
smnrchrds wrote: post #12

Could someone please explain what the long-term goal of the protesters is? Best case scenario, HK and Chinese government postpone the integration until 2047. What then? When the borders come down, what will happen to all those who openly talked against Beijing government, held candlelight vigils for Tienanmen Square victims, and rallied and protested against a government who does not like people protesting and does n…

2047 is 28 years from today. A number of things may change.uh China during that time; the leadership of CPC very likely will have changed. 28 years ago, in 1991, China looked notably different from what it is today.

Indeed, 28 years ago China was not even a dictatorship!

It is foolish to think China in another 28 years is going to be nicer. Despot regimes get worse before they collapse. Sadly even the collapse is not a reprieve.

Re: Why Hong Kong Is Still Marching

#68

Post by fopen64 »

smnrchrds wrote: post #12

Could someone please explain what the long-term goal of the protesters is? Best case scenario, HK and Chinese government postpone the integration until 2047. What then? When the borders come down, what will happen to all those who openly talked against Beijing government, held candlelight vigils for Tienanmen Square victims, and rallied and protested against a government who does not like people protesting and does n…

Well, things can change for the better until 2047 in mainland China.

Re: Why Hong Kong Is Still Marching

#69

Post by kumosawa »

lawrenceyan wrote: post #50
kumosawa wrote: post #39

I’m from china mainland, and I stand for these protesters. At least, I don’t want them lose the right of fighting for their rights. And btw, even such huge protest happening, there is no report, no discussion in China, even message left on SNS also get censored or vanished. Terrifying. Edit: apologize for uncertain words, it needs add a time limitation. The first protest was happening at 9th June and all Chinese medi…

How common would you say it is for someone living in China to be able to have access to outside information / sites like you? Does everyone mostly understand that the government censors things to such an extreme but because of a fear of being targeted choose to not say anything, or would you say that most people are actually genuinely ignorant?

In China mainland, there is a censor tech named Great Firewall.(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Firewall?wprov=sfti1) It just cut off the connection between China and the World Internet by blocking famous website like Twitter, Facebook etc. Only the people have eagerness of finding truth will use anti-blocking tech like VPN to find information by themselves. Of course, it’s inconvenience and sometimes not working because of outer server banned. Not sure how many people could get information by themselves. But it’s pessimistic for people living in China how willing to find the information.

Recently, because the propagation by gov, the citizens even think the GFW is protecting them from harmful information and the outside force want breaking up China rather than censorship itself. Especially, this time the protest is propagated as a riot planned by western country. Being lack of information, most citizens support gov’s standpoint.

So maybe not ignorant, just like not conscious, as a result of being accustomed.

Re: Why Hong Kong Is Still Marching

#70

Post by catpack »

whoevercares wrote: post #65
dis-sys wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know what is your motivation to use a throwaway account to publicly lie on this... Don't get hurt too much for seeing the reports below that can be publicly verified by everyone. Coverage from sohu.com, one of the largest news sites - https://www.sohu.com/a/320190989_114731 http://www.sohu.com/a/320742090_223357 http://www.sohu.com/a/320247941_419342 Coverage by tencent's QQ News: https://new.qq.com/cmsn/TWF2…

Shuhhhhhhhh you break the social norm

It should be a norm to take articles from authoritarian state-owned outlets with many grains of salt. The common trope is to give the basic outline of the facts while ignoring the real issues: namely the fact that communist China is undemocratic, violates basic human rights and that it is a tarnish to anyone's reputation and character to turn a blind eye to this.
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