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U.S. Escalates Online Attacks on Russia’s Power Grid

nytimes.com

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Re: U.S. Escalates Online Attacks on Russia’s Power Grid

#131

Post by qwsxyh »

speedplane wrote: post #102
ShorsHammer wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US plays "fairly" in international relations? Honestly amazed if anyone truly stands by that statement. The irony of mentioning treaties too. That's some next level true believer stuff. Would love to have a chat about: * Chemical weapons convention * Mine ban treaty * Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court * Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty * Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty * Biological and Toxin Weapons Con…

> The US plays "fairly" in international relations? Honestly amazed if anyone truly stands by that statement. If you consider how much power the U.S. has and how often it does not use that power to its fullest advantage, it's pretty remarkable how much it holds back.

Not being as evil as they possibly could is not really good.

Re: U.S. Escalates Online Attacks on Russia’s Power Grid

#132

Post by sapilla »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #128
sapilla wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The app has offline maps? And there are a few 3rd party "offline map" apps.

Google does their best to make the app unusable off-line, but I hear there are alternatives (HERE Maps is a name I recall seeing on HN a few times).

Google Maps for Android provides area-based offline maps, with a time limit that is not enforced.

It's been very useful to me personally, not sure what's unusable about it. I find the online version less usable because it nags me about GPS and obstinately only stores search history online, coupling it to the global Google Activity History setting.

Re: U.S. Escalates Online Attacks on Russia’s Power Grid

#134

Post by manigandham »

majos wrote: post #56
holoduke wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's part of a larger game these nations are playing. There will not be a war between Russia and the US. Not with China who is ultimately the enemy of both Russia and the US. These incidents are meant to keep each other awake.

What do you mean by "these incidents are meant to keep each other awake"? Why would you want to keep a competitor awake?

More of a show of force. The same way militaries physically project power to let the other side know what's possible.

Re: U.S. Escalates Online Attacks on Russia’s Power Grid

#135

Post by manigandham »

billfruit wrote: post #124
devoply wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am a critic of the US but in this case it's not as if Russian hackers don't keep screwing with the US power grid.

But tit for tat responses are problamatic. Eg: Responding to terrorism with more terrorism is hardly going to lead to solutions. US supposedly does not operate in the same ethical-moral framework as the Russians.Is it even legal under American law to disrupt or cause damage to other countries property, while not engaged in war? I think the whole think smacks of extra-legality, and that is one place where democracies…

You won't have much of a country if you let the enemy get the advantage. Sovereignty is maintained through force.

Re: U.S. Escalates Online Attacks on Russia’s Power Grid

#136

Post by manigandham »

qwsxyh wrote: post #131
speedplane wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The US plays "fairly" in international relations? Honestly amazed if anyone truly stands by that statement. If you consider how much power the U.S. has and how often it does not use that power to its fullest advantage, it's pretty remarkable how much it holds back.

Not being as evil as they possibly could is not really good.

There are dozens of countries murdering their own citizens. The US is not nearly as much as problem as people want to make it seem and Pax Americana has led to almost a century without major worldwide war.

Re: U.S. Escalates Online Attacks on Russia’s Power Grid

#137

Post by TeMPOraL »

sapilla wrote: post #132
TeMPOraL wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google does their best to make the app unusable off-line, but I hear there are alternatives (HERE Maps is a name I recall seeing on HN a few times).

Google Maps for Android provides area-based offline maps, with a time limit that is not enforced. It's been very useful to me personally, not sure what's unusable about it. I find the online version less usable because it nags me about GPS and obstinately only stores search history online, coupling it to the global Google Activity History setting.

Is navigation working off-line now? Last time I checked, it didn't. And Google Maps, even on-line, are quite bad at being a map, with the completely unreliable way of rendering street labels. I've used Google Maps off-line in a pinch a few times, but it wasn't too pleasant of an experience.

(Call me entitled, but I don't think it's too much to ask of an off-line map to offer point-by-point navigation and searching through the DB of addresses and POIs in the off-line map. When you can't do it, I get the feeling someone doesn't want you to use off-line mode, and is purposefully overcomplicating things.)

Re: U.S. Escalates Online Attacks on Russia’s Power Grid

#138

Post by manigandham »

billfruit wrote: post #99

I think doing this type of work, causing possible disruption in another countries infrastructure during peace time is ethically problematic. Much more problematic that the ethically dubious things alleged on FB and Google. I hope there is some outcry against doing this type of work.

There's really no such thing as peace time. It's always war time, just not active conflict with full force military deployments.

Military might is what's keeping the peace. Any potential edge you give up can easily turn into an exponential advantage for your opponent. Ethics against similar force projection are a weak argument when defending your sovereignty.

Re: U.S. Escalates Online Attacks on Russia’s Power Grid

#139

Post by nitrogen »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #137
sapilla wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google Maps for Android provides area-based offline maps, with a time limit that is not enforced. It's been very useful to me personally, not sure what's unusable about it. I find the online version less usable because it nags me about GPS and obstinately only stores search history online, coupling it to the global Google Activity History setting.

Is navigation working off-line now? Last time I checked, it didn't. And Google Maps, even on-line, are quite bad at being a map , with the completely unreliable way of rendering street labels. I've used Google Maps off-line in a pinch a few times, but it wasn't too pleasant of an experience. (Call me entitled, but I don't think it's too much to ask of an off-line map to offer point-by-point navigation and searching t…

All those things (except display of some street names) work for me offline on my Android phone, but only for driving directions. You have to save an offline map manually first, somewhere in the settings or sidebar.

Re: U.S. Escalates Online Attacks on Russia’s Power Grid

#140

Post by PappaPatat »

pmoriarty wrote: post #8

"For the past year, energy companies in the United States and oil and gas operators across North America discovered their networks had been examined by the same Russian hackers who successfully dismantled the safety systems in 2017 at Petro Rabigh, a Saudi petrochemical plant and oil refinery." Why are these systems even connected to the internet? Decades ago, creating such connections might have been a forgivable ov…

> Today such attacks are happening in front of our noses and these systems are still connected to the internet?

I've done my fair share of inspecting critical infrastructure in different countries and 9 out of 10 times the reason is: cost.

Got a bridge / tunnel / trafostation that needs monitoring / interaction? DSL only costs 20 a month, let's do it! VPN and 2FA? Costs & our employees are going to kill us since that is too complicated. Updates of the OS and that application that was tailor made by the maker's daughter in law 10 years ago? Too risky and costly.

TL;DR Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

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