Political submissions on HN make me want to reinstall the tagger extension so known trolls or obvious shills can be tracked.
Hong Kong Leader Backs Down on China Law But More Protests Planned
51–60 of 94 posts
Re: Hong Kong Leader Backs Down on China Law But More Protests Planned
#52Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm curious why you're all over this thread pretending that China didn't block the UK from making Hong Kong democratic for over 60 years. Which is something I learned about in the Western media, by the way, and that it would be nearly impossible to learn in Chinese media. Also the claim that these protests were caused by foreign influence is wrong and insulting. It also echos what the higher-level CCP members have be…
> block the UK from making Hong Kong democratic for over 60 years Citation needed. Also, the UK is extremely famous for intentionally or unintentionally leaving a mess when it leaves, any sane government will not just let the British do whatever they want. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/18/opinion/india-pakistan-pa... > nearly impossible to learn in Chinese media It is also nearly impossible to learn anything about…
>Citation needed.
Here ya go (he has further citations at the bottom if you're really interested):
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/...
Regardless of whose fault it is, it doesn't have any bearing on whether or not the people of HK should have self-determination.
>It is also nearly impossible to learn anything about the opium wars in Western media, or how the governors of HK are all appointed by the British monarch directly.
I don't know about that, I learned about it in high school. Here's a more recent book and review about it:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2018/07/02/book...
>Then what is this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Endowment_for_Democra....
>BTW he/she said "largely encouraged".
So the existence of the NED proves to you that a large portion of the protestors in Hong Kong are foreign-influenced? Okay. Personally, I think it's more likely that they're concerned about their rights and it's insulting to say otherwise.
Re: Hong Kong Leader Backs Down on China Law But More Protests Planned
#53“During her news conference, Ms. Lam pinned blame for the chaos on the government failing to effectively explain to people why the bill was needed, rather than conceding protesters’ arguments that the law was flawed.” Politically savvy approach, but completely ridiculous. HKers understand exactly what this bill would do to them. Nothing makes me more angry than bureaucrats with bad intentions treating…
it's part of the system, elders always know best even when they clearly don't in many ways. Internet is changing the archaic thinking, but too slowly.
Re: Hong Kong Leader Backs Down on China Law But More Protests Planned
#54Earlier quoted context omitted.
> block the UK from making Hong Kong democratic for over 60 years Citation needed. Also, the UK is extremely famous for intentionally or unintentionally leaving a mess when it leaves, any sane government will not just let the British do whatever they want. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/18/opinion/india-pakistan-pa... > nearly impossible to learn in Chinese media It is also nearly impossible to learn anything about…
>Citation needed. Here ya go (he has further citations at the bottom if you're really interested): https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/... Regardless of whose fault it is, it doesn't have any bearing on whether or not the people of HK should have self-determination. >It is also nearly impossible to learn anything about the opium wars in Western media, or how the governors of HK are all appoint…
So, preventing HK from declaring independence is equivalent to blocking democracy? Straw man argument.
> Regardless of whose fault it is
God I wish I am from the West, I don't have do be responsible for the mess I created. Just say this sentence and I am invulnerable to accusations and should be trusted again.
That's one link about the opium wars, it is completely unhelpful to resolve the issues created by the massive amounts of news that do not talk about the opium wars when they talk about HK.
If more people know what happened during the opium wars, the it will not be so hard to understand that HK should be returned with no strings attached, and the one country two systems policy is already a big step back from the Chinese government that takes the welfare of the people of HK into account.
About your last point, I don't plan to convince you. If you think the West is innocent after you see what a mess this world is, good for you. But please bear in mind that this is also insulting to the countless people who suffered in other parts of the world. People didn't just wake up and decide to dislike you.
Re: Hong Kong Leader Backs Down on China Law But More Protests Planned
#55Earlier quoted context omitted.
>Citation needed. Here ya go (he has further citations at the bottom if you're really interested): https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/... Regardless of whose fault it is, it doesn't have any bearing on whether or not the people of HK should have self-determination. >It is also nearly impossible to learn anything about the opium wars in Western media, or how the governors of HK are all appoint…
So, preventing HK from declaring independence is equivalent to blocking democracy? Straw man argument. > Regardless of whose fault it is God I wish I am from the West, I don't have do be responsible for the mess I created. Just say this sentence and I am invulnerable to accusations and should be trusted again. That's one link about the opium wars, it is completely unhelpful to resolve the issues created by the massiv…
Wow, you only read the thread title of the first link I gave you. Obviously you aren't interested in learning anything. If you change your mind, read a little further.
You claimed that it's impossible to read about the Opium Wars in Western media, I say I learned about it in high school history and give you one of thousands upon thousands of links about it that will come up when you search.
I never claimed the West was innocent, nor that they should be forgiven about anything. You're just adding all that stuff in to further muddle the discussion when you've been proven wrong.
I hope you learn to challenge your own beliefs, because after your comments I don't think it's a good use of my time to continue discussing things with you.
Re: Hong Kong Leader Backs Down on China Law But More Protests Planned
#56Earlier quoted context omitted.
It’s worth taking a moment to reflect that the PM in the UK is also not elected by popular suffrage. The next PM will (literally) be elected by 100,000 members of the Conservative party, not by general election. It’ll be the second time in recent memory this has happened, after Gordon Brown.
third I think as May was also not elected via a general election.
She was confirmed by one tho, so I was gonna let that slide
Re: Hong Kong Leader Backs Down on China Law But More Protests Planned
#57Her discourse is really manipulative, in it you can find your typical attempt to divide people by focusing on the downside of demonstrations (injuries, crime, etc.), on the lie that it is a divisible bill, and on fake low numbers (10,000? more like millions). This is very concerning. It feels like Hong Kong is doomed to lose more and more of its independence, and freedom of speech, and freedom of press, as the years…
Oh, well, as a "mainlander", I tell you: Hong Kong citizens WILL lose all their rights, and it will come sooner than you think.
If you watched this protest and all their other protests, it is very easy to see one thing: Their action is isolated， they don't have the power to unite people other than themselves. Nobody besides themselves will stand for them. Nobody in mainland support them, nobody in mainland understand them. Many mainlanders even developed Schadenfreude when looking at those protests.
(OK, "Nobody" is a bit of over exaggeration, but fairly right if you want to feel the situation)
Why? Because they are protest only for their own rights, on their own little land that nobody cares anymore. It's not about greater good, not "making the entire China democratic". Just "We're Hongkongers, we are special, so we must have those rights", while don't give a damn when the rest of China is been stripped clean.
How many HongKonger protested when Xi changed the Constitution? Not this much.
Nobody cares about your right if you don't defend the right of the others. 50 years, if they don't change China for the better, China will change them, as simple as that.
Re: Hong Kong Leader Backs Down on China Law But More Protests Planned
#58Earlier quoted context omitted.
So, preventing HK from declaring independence is equivalent to blocking democracy? Straw man argument. > Regardless of whose fault it is God I wish I am from the West, I don't have do be responsible for the mess I created. Just say this sentence and I am invulnerable to accusations and should be trusted again. That's one link about the opium wars, it is completely unhelpful to resolve the issues created by the massiv…
Wow, you only read the thread title of the first link I gave you. Obviously you aren't interested in learning anything. If you change your mind, read a little further. You claimed that it's impossible to read about the Opium Wars in Western media, I say I learned about it in high school history and give you one of thousands upon thousands of links about it that will come up when you search. I never claimed the West w…
OK I admit that I didn't read the whole thing. So I go back and read every single line of that link.
OK, the Provisional Legislative Council was questionable in your view, I understand. But how exactly does this proves that the Chinese government blocked the democracy for 60 years? How about the existence of LegCo? Also I still don't think we agree on what the word "return" means.
Yes there are thousands of links that talk about the opium wars, and you have learned about it in school, but that doesn't help because the news don't talk about it. If you decide to include every wrong doings of the CCP when you talk about HK, it is dishonest to exclude the UK's dirty history.
I would also ask you to challenge your beliefs about why some parts of the world is unstable. I do not have proofs about whether there is someone behind this event in HK, but the protesters also have no proof that this bill is going to make HK a 1984-like society. China is a country surrounded by enemies, it isn't a bad thing to be paranoid, especially when people are clearly overreacting.
https://www.investigaction.net/en/trojan-horses-and-color-re...
Re: Hong Kong Leader Backs Down on China Law But More Protests Planned
#59Her discourse is really manipulative, in it you can find your typical attempt to divide people by focusing on the downside of demonstrations (injuries, crime, etc.), on the lie that it is a divisible bill, and on fake low numbers (10,000? more like millions). This is very concerning. It feels like Hong Kong is doomed to lose more and more of its independence, and freedom of speech, and freedom of press, as the years…
Oh, well, as a "mainlander", I tell you: Hong Kong citizens WILL lose all their rights, and it will come sooner than you think. If you watched this protest and all their other protests, it is very easy to see one thing: Their action is isolated， they don't have the power to unite people other than themselves. Nobody besides themselves will stand for them. Nobody in mainland support them, nobody in mainland understand…
A bit hypocritical of you to complain about them not protesting for your rights, when you are unwilling to protest for theirs.
Re: Hong Kong Leader Backs Down on China Law But More Protests Planned
#60Earlier quoted context omitted.
“as much as I love China and can understand their politics due to the size of their country” The size of China is not the source of their politics; the source is a totalitarian state that ruthlessly suppresses any dissent and maintains constant surveillance of its people. Not to imply that you meant otherwise, but the citizens of mainland China are no less deserving of political rights than those of Hong Kong; rather…
I'm curious where all these concerned westerners were when hk was undemocratically ruled by the Brits as a colony. Were they ignorant of what they meant at the time or did they not care so long as others were ruled by their own?
we weren't born yet.