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Hong Kong Leader Backs Down on China Law But More Protests Planned

wsj.com

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Re: Hong Kong Leader Backs Down on China Law But More Protests Planned

#41

Post by confusedhnguy »

tempguy9999 wrote: post #9
chews wrote: post #2

That is good news for the time being. Let’s hope more comes of this sort of action.

I don't think it is. It seems to me to be playing right into the hands of the chinese gov't. "we gave you what you want then you protest some more? Clearly you are liars and deceivers". Then more violence by the police, completely justified this time because protesters must be just troublemakers. It seems a very risky strategy. I would advise against it, or at least think very carefully, but what do I know.

The protesters get what they want: this is the Chinese government's evil plan. The protesters couldn't get what they want: this is the Chinese government's evil plan.

Next time please just say that the Chinese government is evil, save all the typing.

Re: Hong Kong Leader Backs Down on China Law But More Protests Planned

#42

Post by atr_gz »

agent00f wrote: post #32
thinkpad20 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“as much as I love China and can understand their politics due to the size of their country” The size of China is not the source of their politics; the source is a totalitarian state that ruthlessly suppresses any dissent and maintains constant surveillance of its people. Not to imply that you meant otherwise, but the citizens of mainland China are no less deserving of political rights than those of Hong Kong; rather…

I'm curious where all these concerned westerners were when hk was undemocratically ruled by the Brits as a colony. Were they ignorant of what they meant at the time or did they not care so long as others were ruled by their own?

I'm curious why you're all over this thread pretending that China didn't block the UK from making Hong Kong democratic for over 60 years.

Which is something I learned about in the Western media, by the way, and that it would be nearly impossible to learn in Chinese media.

Also the claim that these protests were caused by foreign influence is wrong and insulting. It also echos what the higher-level CCP members have been saying.

Re: Hong Kong Leader Backs Down on China Law But More Protests Planned

#43

Post by confusedhnguy »

atr_gz wrote: post #42
agent00f wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious where all these concerned westerners were when hk was undemocratically ruled by the Brits as a colony. Were they ignorant of what they meant at the time or did they not care so long as others were ruled by their own?

I'm curious why you're all over this thread pretending that China didn't block the UK from making Hong Kong democratic for over 60 years. Which is something I learned about in the Western media, by the way, and that it would be nearly impossible to learn in Chinese media. Also the claim that these protests were caused by foreign influence is wrong and insulting. It also echos what the higher-level CCP members have be…

> block the UK from making Hong Kong democratic for over 60 years

Citation needed. Also, the UK is extremely famous for intentionally or unintentionally leaving a mess when it leaves, any sane government will not just let the British do whatever they want.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/18/opinion/india-pakistan-pa...

> nearly impossible to learn in Chinese media

It is also nearly impossible to learn anything about the opium wars in Western media, or how the governors of HK are all appointed by the British monarch directly. So I guess we are even here.

> Also the claim that these protests were caused by foreign influence is wrong and insulting.

Then what is this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Endowment_for_Democra...

BTW he/she said "largely encouraged".

Re: Hong Kong Leader Backs Down on China Law But More Protests Planned

#44

Post by Para2016 »

confusedhnguy wrote: post #39
agent00f wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you can count on to never be reported in the Western press is that hk wasn't a democratic society under nearly all of British colonial rule. It wasn't until right before the handover that the Brits instituted elections to create hostility between hk and China, as they had a habit of doing in their colonies like between sunnis/shiites in the middle east whenever such division benefits them. Of course their politi…

Being a tech-oritented online community, I assumed that the average HN readers at least care about basic facts. Little did I know about all the ignorant and arrogant comments I was about to see. The West needs a new enemy. Until China folds and become a puppy state like Japan, or get turned into a mess like the Middle East, this propaganda wagon will go stronger and stronger.

Oh you don't think we care about basic facts?

Here's a basic fact: it's better to have more freedom instead of less. Wrap your brain around that simple fact.

Re: Hong Kong Leader Backs Down on China Law But More Protests Planned

#45

Post by xtirpation »

confusedhnguy wrote: post #41
tempguy9999 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it is. It seems to me to be playing right into the hands of the chinese gov't. "we gave you what you want then you protest some more? Clearly you are liars and deceivers". Then more violence by the police, completely justified this time because protesters must be just troublemakers. It seems a very risky strategy. I would advise against it, or at least think very carefully, but what do I know.

The protesters get what they want: this is the Chinese government's evil plan. The protesters couldn't get what they want: this is the Chinese government's evil plan. Next time please just say that the Chinese government is evil, save all the typing.

The bill is only suspended indefinitely, not withdrawn. The protesters don't have what they want yet.

It would not surprise me if the suspension were quietly lifted in the future when the world has moved on from the protests.

Re: Hong Kong Leader Backs Down on China Law But More Protests Planned

#46

Post by confusedhnguy »

Para2016 wrote: post #44
confusedhnguy wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being a tech-oritented online community, I assumed that the average HN readers at least care about basic facts. Little did I know about all the ignorant and arrogant comments I was about to see. The West needs a new enemy. Until China folds and become a puppy state like Japan, or get turned into a mess like the Middle East, this propaganda wagon will go stronger and stronger.

Oh you don't think we care about basic facts? Here's a basic fact: it's better to have more freedom instead of less. Wrap your brain around that simple fact.

So you care about facts and freedom. Now tell me how being abducted by a drug dealer after the opium wars was a free choice of the people in HK, and also, how they enjoyed the freedom to choose their governor from the exactly one candidate appointed by the British.

Re: Hong Kong Leader Backs Down on China Law But More Protests Planned

#47

Post by dang »

Para2016 wrote: post #44
confusedhnguy wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being a tech-oritented online community, I assumed that the average HN readers at least care about basic facts. Little did I know about all the ignorant and arrogant comments I was about to see. The West needs a new enemy. Until China folds and become a puppy state like Japan, or get turned into a mess like the Middle East, this propaganda wagon will go stronger and stronger.

Oh you don't think we care about basic facts? Here's a basic fact: it's better to have more freedom instead of less. Wrap your brain around that simple fact.

We've banned this account for repeatedly violating the site guidelines and ignoring our requests to stop.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Hong Kong Leader Backs Down on China Law But More Protests Planned

#48

Post by confusedhnguy »

xtirpation wrote: post #45
confusedhnguy wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The protesters get what they want: this is the Chinese government's evil plan. The protesters couldn't get what they want: this is the Chinese government's evil plan. Next time please just say that the Chinese government is evil, save all the typing.

The bill is only suspended indefinitely, not withdrawn. The protesters don't have what they want yet. It would not surprise me if the suspension were quietly lifted in the future when the world has moved on from the protests.

Yes, they still need to push further if they want to make sure the bill never get passed.

> suspension were quietly lifted in the future when the world has moved on from the protests

Very unlikely to happen in the social media era. Even in mainland China, where most of the Westerners fantasize about being a 1984-like society, someone on social media can always dig eye-catching new bills/laws/regulations out and raise some attention on Weibo/various online forums.

Out of all the 7.4 million people in HK, it only takes one guy to discover the attempt and post it online (even on HN), and the West will be all over it.

Re: Hong Kong Leader Backs Down on China Law But More Protests Planned

#49

Post by dang »

confusedhnguy wrote: post #39
agent00f wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you can count on to never be reported in the Western press is that hk wasn't a democratic society under nearly all of British colonial rule. It wasn't until right before the handover that the Brits instituted elections to create hostility between hk and China, as they had a habit of doing in their colonies like between sunnis/shiites in the middle east whenever such division benefits them. Of course their politi…

Being a tech-oritented online community, I assumed that the average HN readers at least care about basic facts. Little did I know about all the ignorant and arrogant comments I was about to see. The West needs a new enemy. Until China folds and become a puppy state like Japan, or get turned into a mess like the Middle East, this propaganda wagon will go stronger and stronger.

Please don't rant like this on HN. It doesn't help and only makes this place worse.

If there's misinformation, providing correct information neutrally at least has a chance of helping.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Hong Kong Leader Backs Down on China Law But More Protests Planned

#50

Post by thinkingemote »

peteretep wrote: post #24
ForHackernews wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The head of Hong Kong is not elected by popular suffrage: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Hong_Kong_protests#Backgr... > The leader of Hong Kong, the Chief executive, is currently elected by a 1200-member Election Committee, though Article 45 of the Basic Law states that "the ultimate aim is the selection of the Chief executive by universal suffrage upon nomination by a broadly representative nominating committee…

It’s worth taking a moment to reflect that the PM in the UK is also not elected by popular suffrage. The next PM will (literally) be elected by 100,000 members of the Conservative party, not by general election. It’ll be the second time in recent memory this has happened, after Gordon Brown.

third I think as May was also not elected via a general election.
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