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Retail stores use Bluetooth beacons to track customers

nytimes.com

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Re: Retail stores use Bluetooth beacons to track customers

#131

Post by rapht »

24bug47 wrote: post #102
nerdponx wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And this, too, should be illegal.

But it won't be. And even if it were, let us remember how well the law works to curtail crime among governments and wealthy corporations and individuals. They'll hide it, "repurpose it", lie about it, and engage in years-long legal battles during which time the public loses interest. If it is more profitable to break the law and pay the fine, that is the best business decision.

That's true... and that's why we should push for 2 things to happen when it is found that a business knowingly broke the law (or knew it was at risk of breaking and went on anyways) : - a "proportionate" fine should never be less than 100% of the profits derived from their behaviour - whoever authorized the company to go forward should be personally on the hook too

Re: Retail stores use Bluetooth beacons to track customers

#132

Post by RobertDeNiro »

ajkjk wrote: post #8

Nothing would make me want to buy yogurt less than an ad on my phone while I'm looking at yogurt. I would hope everyone would feel the same way, to disincentivize this.

I would agree. But the skeptic in me thinks that once this behaviour is mainstream enough, people will forget how outraging it is and just accept it.

Re: Retail stores use Bluetooth beacons to track customers

#134

Post by landonxjames »

g8oz wrote: post #129

We need to articulate the changes we need from Apple & Google. Something along the lines of a) permission required for any app to use Bluetooth or BLE - preferably differentiating between whether the app is running in the foreground or background b) a way to turn off both Bluetooth and BLE at the OS level. Then pressure needs to applied either through public opinion or through legislative efforts.

App level bluetooth permissioning is actually planned as a part of iOS 13

https://www.apple.com/ios/ios-13-preview/features/

Re: Retail stores use Bluetooth beacons to track customers

#135

Post by ehnto »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #70
_bxg1 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just disable background activity for all apps that you don't fully trust. For me, that pretty much means like four first-party Apple apps that actually reasonably need it.

That's a good personal workaround, but it's not a solution to a problem - much like moving to a different city doesn't solve the problem of the manufacturing plant poisoning the water supply of the city you live in. Adtech industry needs to be torched. GDPR was a step in the right direction, but unfortunately isn't nearly enough (I'd start with more aggressive enforcement of it, though). Something to pressure your po…

I wonder if the usage of any data by advertisers was the hardest regulated, could you stifle demand for certain types of data sources. If you need to show a verifiable paper trail that leads back to a trusted acceptance from the individual user, then it would hopefully make advertisers think twice about their data sources as many technologies out there now rely on user fingerprinting to skirt privacy regulations, and could never provide proof of consent for collecting their data.

Re: Retail stores use Bluetooth beacons to track customers

#136

Post by aviraldg »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #70
_bxg1 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just disable background activity for all apps that you don't fully trust. For me, that pretty much means like four first-party Apple apps that actually reasonably need it.

That's a good personal workaround, but it's not a solution to a problem - much like moving to a different city doesn't solve the problem of the manufacturing plant poisoning the water supply of the city you live in. Adtech industry needs to be torched. GDPR was a step in the right direction, but unfortunately isn't nearly enough (I'd start with more aggressive enforcement of it, though). Something to pressure your po…

What about all the people around the world who can't afford to pay for the services that adtech currently pays for for them? Why do you feel you can make the decision to get rid of adtech on their behalf?

Re: Retail stores use Bluetooth beacons to track customers

#137

Post by elipsey »

MrBuddyCasino wrote: post #118
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes that's exactly how this gets implemented in practice. I did quite a bit of client work here too, specifically around using already existing surveillance camera networks to build user profiles. At the end of the day the goal is to optimize for the intersection of "what the user wants" and "what we want to sell." So, a low collection system will give bad recommendations and a really good recommendation system will…

> "It's kind of creepy, but if it gives me good suggestions, I don't really care." This is an Unpopular Opinion, but IMHO thats kind of a reasonable stance to take.

You could say the same thing about any externality.

Re: Retail stores use Bluetooth beacons to track customers

#138

Post by neura »

rolltiide wrote: post #36
andrewgioia wrote: post #24

This is rage inducing. I went into this article thinking "ok as long as I don't have the Target or Ikea or whatever app installed on my phone, I'm fine." While that is a primary way, this needs to be outlawed: > These companies take their beacon tracking code and bundle it into a toolkit developers can use. The makers of many popular apps, such as those for news or weather updates, insert these toolkits into their ap…

This is how an app like Facebook can show you an ad on something you were talking about. It would be naive to point the finger at Facebook listening to you, it would be more accurate to assume its EVERY OTHER app (including FB) gathering data about you and your surroundings - MAYBE ONE IS ACTUALLY LISTENING - but whether any individual app is or isn't, the data brokers have all the data as well as other people like y…

* "What? No, we don't do that. We provide the infrastructure for others to do that."

Re: Retail stores use Bluetooth beacons to track customers

#139

Post by rhizome »

dTal wrote: post #28

>Location marketing aims to understand “online-offline attribution.” If a Starbucks coffee ad is sent to your email, for example, marketers want to know if you actually went there and bought a coffee. The only way to know is to monitor your online and offline habits at all times. Make no mistake: the purpose of marketing is to maximize information asymmetry. The natural end point is totalitarian: they know everything…

This is one of the reasonable justifcations for shoplifting.

Re: Retail stores use Bluetooth beacons to track customers

#140

Post by squarefoot »

cortesoft wrote: post #120
TeMPOraL wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is marketing at its worst. This is marketing at its real. As practiced. > I don't think telling people the product you created to serve their need is inherently evil. Of course it isn't evil, but this is not what marketing is doing - and claiming so amounts to a motte-and-bailey defense of an industry that's rotten to the core and quite openly malicious towards their fellow human beings.

I am not defending these practices at all, I am just saying the idea of marketing is not inherently evil. I also think you are being unfair if you say there are zero companies that do marketing right.

"I am just saying the idea of marketing is not inherently evil."

And probably most of us, including me, would agree. The problem is when the market is saturated with goods compared to buyers so that more aggressive methods - read: lies and subtle psychological tactics - are used to convince those buyers they need this or that product when they actually don't. Which becomes even more evil when the product is something potentially harmful such as unneeded food, medicines, anything that will be soon thrown away creating more pollution, etc. The problem isn't marketing by itself, but the total disregard for moral issues that can and will make it harmful once overproduction and saturated markets get us to a point where lying is the only way to keep businesses alive.

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