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Retail stores use Bluetooth beacons to track customers

nytimes.com

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Re: Retail stores use Bluetooth beacons to track customers

#101

Post by crazygringo »

sho wrote: post #94
crazygringo wrote: post #60

I feel like I need a lot more clarification here, can anybody help out, whether on iOS or Android: 1) Some random third-party app has to be running on your phone to detect beacons and send the data back... how viable/likely is this actually? It seems like this would only ever effectively detect a tiny percentage of users at best who just happen to have one of the apps open while walking around a store? 2) For an app…

> Some random third-party app has to be running on your phone to detect beacons and send the data back They don't have to be running. Here's my understanding (for iOS anyway): 1. Apps have the ability to subscribe to bluetooth callbacks from the OS, which is constantly scanning for them (about once a second, from memory). It will be something like, "wake me up when you detect that beacon with UUID ABCD123 is in range…

Thanks, this helps a lot.

I'm pretty shocked all this can go on in the background without permissions. With Apple adopting such a privacy-conscious stance, I really hope this gets their attention so beacon scanning requires explicit permission in the future (and separate from location services -- my weather app needs to know where I am, but certainly doesn't need to scan for beacons).

This is honestly pretty egregious.

Re: Retail stores use Bluetooth beacons to track customers

#102

Post by 24bug47 »

nerdponx wrote: post #79
_b8r0 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this is rage inducing, you're going to lose your mind when you find out what companies have been doing with tracking phone location via GSM.

And this, too, should be illegal.

But it won't be. And even if it were, let us remember how well the law works to curtail crime among governments and wealthy corporations and individuals. They'll hide it, "repurpose it", lie about it, and engage in years-long legal battles during which time the public loses interest. If it is more profitable to break the law and pay the fine, that is the best business decision.

Re: Retail stores use Bluetooth beacons to track customers

#103

Post by Spooky23 »

_b8r0 wrote: post #54
andrewgioia wrote: post #24

This is rage inducing. I went into this article thinking "ok as long as I don't have the Target or Ikea or whatever app installed on my phone, I'm fine." While that is a primary way, this needs to be outlawed: > These companies take their beacon tracking code and bundle it into a toolkit developers can use. The makers of many popular apps, such as those for news or weather updates, insert these toolkits into their ap…

If this is rage inducing, you're going to lose your mind when you find out what companies have been doing with tracking phone location via GSM.

I saw a thing 10-15 years ago with a business associate building retail. He had average income for everyone driving by, some profession data, all sources from mobile carriers.

Re: Retail stores use Bluetooth beacons to track customers

#105

Post by brianpayne2 »

ganoushoreilly wrote: post #97
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes that's exactly how this gets implemented in practice. I did quite a bit of client work here too, specifically around using already existing surveillance camera networks to build user profiles. At the end of the day the goal is to optimize for the intersection of "what the user wants" and "what we want to sell." So, a low collection system will give bad recommendations and a really good recommendation system will…

I've used systems that leverage passive detection of Bluetooth, Wifi, and other radio signals as an indicator. No Apps required. Tying beacons into points of authentication (login from workspace) or transactional data at a register. A large portion of it was actually focused around security and not product marketing, but the tech is the same.

Does the BT detection work the same way that WiFi access point scanning works? I know that app developers use this WiFi tech from a client (device) side to determine location, but I am a bit disturbed about the aspect of this being so accurate with BT devices.

Re: Retail stores use Bluetooth beacons to track customers

#106

Post by 24bug47 »

tantalor wrote: post #99
imroot wrote: post #86

To me, this isn't big news -- It's at the point where I turn wifi and Bluetooth off when I'm shopping. Look at some of the filings by Kroger: https://fccid.io/PBR-SZG3APWC/Users-Manual/Manual-3994818 They are tracking down at the bay level for some items.

> I turn wifi and Bluetooth off You believe that makes a difference?

The only option is to cage your phone in a Faraday bag and only use it when necessary. Trust no company. Trust no government.

Re: Retail stores use Bluetooth beacons to track customers

#107

Post by nxcho »

umvi wrote: post #77

What I don't get is: 1. Pretend it's the 1900s. Walk into a general store, shopkeeper sees you looking at ammo for 20 minutes and then leave without buying anything. Next time you walk in, he recognizes you and says he'll give you a discount on ammo if you buy in bulk. This is totally cool, not a violation of privacy, and both parties benefit. win/win 2. Use a computer to do the same exact thing automatically Rage, p…

1. Pretend it is the 1970s in East Berlin and someone follows you around, noting down every interaction you have with other humans and every bit of media you consume and collects this information in a file somewhere for future use. This is the horrifying and oppressive surveillance machine of a paranoid dictatorship.

2. Use a computer to the the exact thing automatically today. This is just the natural state of the world, nothing to do anything about it, move along.

Re: Retail stores use Bluetooth beacons to track customers

#108

Post by closetohome »

andrewgioia wrote: post #61
rolltiide wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is how an app like Facebook can show you an ad on something you were talking about. It would be naive to point the finger at Facebook listening to you, it would be more accurate to assume its EVERY OTHER app (including FB) gathering data about you and your surroundings - MAYBE ONE IS ACTUALLY LISTENING - but whether any individual app is or isn't, the data brokers have all the data as well as other people like y…

Yes absolutely, everyone else is gathering this apparently and it has to just be assumed now. I hadn't thought about it with the "facebook is listening" stuff but this makes way more sense. It's particularly frustrating given how hard I try to disassociate myself and my family from "data brokers" and then I read another thing like this.

I think people jump to "the app is listening" because it's the easiest concept to understand. Anyone with a technical background knows why that's extremely unlikely, but it still makes more sense to people as a narrative than the complex web of online trackers and analytics gathering that happens out of sight and contains vastly more information about individuals than could be gleaned by eavesdropping on ambient room noise.

Re: Retail stores use Bluetooth beacons to track customers

#109

Post by dawnerd »

keanebean86 wrote: post #98
LeifCarrotson wrote: post #76

Maybe the existence of such toolkits is a Chesterton's Fence that says you can't make this work without something installed on the phone. But this would be possible without these trojans. If the Bluetooth beacon configures itself as a master, and enters inquiry mode, phones that pass nearby will happily respond with their Bluetooth ID (see https://www.bluetooth.org/docman/handlers/downloaddoc.ashx?d... , section 8.4)…

They have security cameras too. Correlate video with AP locations and you can probably figure out whos phone it. Tie that in with some facial recognition database and can really identify people. Walmart has been adding cameras on high shrink isles that are almost eye level. At some point they might add even more cameras for "security" that are also used for eye tracking. Think of all the opportunities to optimize pro…

self checkouts already have eye level cameras and they know which items you actually purchase so really not that farfetched to assume they're also using beacons to track your phone as well.

Re: Retail stores use Bluetooth beacons to track customers

#110

Post by move-on-by »

This is a bit off topic, but how could I do this at home? Seems like it could be a great addition to home security systems. Criminals know to cover their faces with all the cameras and they use stolen vehicles that can’t be traced back to them. I bet they still have their phones with them. I’m not sure the police would take action on a device’s MAC address- but it’s still another data point. Perhaps there are hardware/usb sticks designed for this purpose?
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