Earlier quoted context omitted.
I wouldn't ask it snarkily. I've been hired for jobs before and then asked to work on stuff that, while related, was nowhere in the job description. Got hired to do Java/C++ development, was pushed into being part-time sysadmin for our primary test environment because my team had spare capacity and our dev-ops team didn't. There were times I went 6 months without touching a line of Java or C++. Another guy I worked w…
There's literally no way to not ask that snarkily. Don't do it. Also, it reeks of "justice driven opinion having" which is scary beyond reason for an employer, e.g. "They didn't ask for this feature the right way so I'm not going to deliver it/deliver it in a way that makes them unhappy."
I got asked LeetCode questions for a dev-ops systems engineering job today
201–210 of 497 posts
Re: I got asked LeetCode questions for a dev-ops systems engineering job today
#202Earlier quoted context omitted.
Saying "I don't know" is an accurate answer. The ability to ask meaningful questions is a big part of any programming job. And (in my opinion) harder to learn than any particular technology.
Saying "I don't know" like this in an interview scenario is nearly impossible for most candidates and only serves to humiliate rather than prove their abilities. If you want to see them ask questions, give a half explanation of the problem at hand instead and guide them to ask more detailed technical questions. Be an ally, not an adversary, and you will find talent better than if you push.
with hacker news so utterly convinced that employers have literal powers of life and death over their employees, when do you expect the potential employee to regain the ability to tell their employer that they don't know? after they've quit their previous job and moved across the country? a week after that? six months? maybe after they've got some kids?
Re: I got asked LeetCode questions for a dev-ops systems engineering job today
#203Good DevOps engineers are software engineers that can also do infrastructure work. They should be able to code. Unfortunately, many are "cloud sysadmins", for lack of a better term.
I don't do code, though I'm sure you would like me on your team :) (BTW I have the exact opposite opinion, I think devs should stick to code and not try to setup infrastructure for themselves)
Re: I got asked LeetCode questions for a dev-ops systems engineering job today
#204Earlier quoted context omitted.
Any interview (of mine) is a conversation - they're not something you pass or fail - it's just a way for a potential employer and employee to get to know one another so they can make better decisions. Nobody won, lost, passed or failed. The interview is just there to provide more information to determine if the potential employer and employee would fit well together. If I were in an interview that was presented as a…
> Nobody won, lost, passed or failed I mean, like, yeah they did. They either got the job or they did not.
Re: I got asked LeetCode questions for a dev-ops systems engineering job today
#205Interviewing people is hard. Most people suck at it. I've interviewed over 100 people in my life, and I've been interviewed about ten times. I know I still suck at it. The code test is one of the more annoying facets of interviews. On the hiring side, it's an efficient way to screen and vet candidates for basic skills. It's relatively low cost to the employer to have a recruiter issue the test. If you come up with yo…
At the time of this writing, I am working with someone who has 10+ years of experience, including former positions as a lead developer. I was involved in the interview process and made the recommendation to hire, as they were able to answer a lot of domain-specific questions very well and had a good knowledge of the ecosystem. Fast-forward three months, and I am spending hours per day sending changes back on code reviews for features that would have taken me 30 minutes to implement. Every review has at least one conditional that always evaluates to true. Yesterday I found a try/catch block that always throws inside of the try block. The crown jewel was the following for-loop (psuedocode):
for i=0; i
And the best part is because of political reasons and difficulty hiring a replacement, we can't fire this person. I now include coding exercises in my interviews. I typically focus on reviewing code with bugs and refactoring bad code instead of forcing them to whiteboard.Re: I got asked LeetCode questions for a dev-ops systems engineering job today
#206Earlier quoted context omitted.
Saying "I don't know" is an accurate answer. The ability to ask meaningful questions is a big part of any programming job. And (in my opinion) harder to learn than any particular technology.
Maybe you could give the critical replies to your comment some consideration. There seem to be many interviewers who abuse their temporary power over candidates by freestyling a psychological excercise, and brag about it in threads like this. In a way forcing the other party to give up with an "I don't know" is humiliating, and graciously allowing this answer doesn't make things better. You'd put yourself above the o…
Re: I got asked LeetCode questions for a dev-ops systems engineering job today
#207Earlier quoted context omitted.
I wouldn't ask it snarkily. I've been hired for jobs before and then asked to work on stuff that, while related, was nowhere in the job description. Got hired to do Java/C++ development, was pushed into being part-time sysadmin for our primary test environment because my team had spare capacity and our dev-ops team didn't. There were times I went 6 months without touching a line of Java or C++. Another guy I worked w…
There's literally no way to not ask that snarkily. Don't do it. Also, it reeks of "justice driven opinion having" which is scary beyond reason for an employer, e.g. "They didn't ask for this feature the right way so I'm not going to deliver it/deliver it in a way that makes them unhappy."
Interviews go both ways. If you have a problem simply saying something like "nah, these are just screening problems, it's hard to come up with good ones" then it sounds like there's deeper problems here. Like, the company having issues recognizing even obvious flaws in its own processes.
Re: I got asked LeetCode questions for a dev-ops systems engineering job today
#208Earlier quoted context omitted.
You make a fair point, but an interview is not solely about programming skill. It's also about being a co-worker. And the question "what does this person do in X situation", where X is "they don't know the answer to something they need to know'" is highly relevant. So there may be a better way to go about it, but the parent's desire is reasonable.
The deal is when you’re interviewing me we’re _not_ co-workers. You hold all of the cards and decide my fate. A big part of interviewing candidates well is breaking down that dynamic. There are many ways of doing it - I get up on the whiteboard first and write out my problem, and stay there until they’ve explained themselves and I need to get back to my notes so I don’t forget stuff. I phrase questions like “I need h…
I'm not sure I agree here. Granted I work for quite a small company, so it's pretty different than working at a company with a significant reputation to help candidates make decisions. But when I interview candidates I'm very aware that they are evaluating me whilst I'm evaluating them.
I actually think this is a good thing. It incentivizes me to make the interview a more pleasant experience, and perform it in such a way that it feels collaborative, like a real work situation, and not as standoffish as some interviews can be. That said, we still do ask hard technical questions solved on whiteboards or in code, and setting them up in such a way that the candidates feel comfortable asking questions on things they don't know / are unclear about is definitely challenging.
To be honest, something I think we (as in the software community at large) lose sight of some times is how unique and challenging performing interviews is. We see stories like this pretty frequently, and we're used to the idea that being interviewed is a fairly distinct skill, orthogonal to what we usually perform in our day to day work life. Something that's talked about a lot less frequently (understandably, more of us are getting interviewed than performing them) is that interviewing others is also a separate skill, and one that really isn't practiced or honed enough in my opinion.
Re: I got asked LeetCode questions for a dev-ops systems engineering job today
#209Earlier quoted context omitted.
I agree with the urban legend guess. Yeah it happens, but not as often as you think.
Acing an algorithm type interview has little to do with answering questions like can you translate business problems into working systems? Do you know whether you should be writing this code at all or use a third party solution? Do you know how not to gold plate a solution and ship software? Can you solve a performance issue with a process that may not involve code but involve another part of the stack?
The complex questions, if I can get answers are awesome. They are also the ones that are hard to objectively describe. Based on the number of blogs read, candidate charisma, my own work pressures - there is a big chance a senior enough person can wave their hands through those. Hence the tilt towards the surety of coding.
Also TBF, in my 1000s of interviews, we have always had a couple of rounds (Bar raisers / System Design / Architecture ... whatever) which try to get the fuzzy input. We get a sense, but that's not in depth as you might imagine. OTOH we have a clear cut answer in the problem solving world that gets us a bit more closer to the hire/nohire decision.
Re: I got asked LeetCode questions for a dev-ops systems engineering job today
#210Interviewing people is hard. Most people suck at it. I've interviewed over 100 people in my life, and I've been interviewed about ten times. I know I still suck at it. The code test is one of the more annoying facets of interviews. On the hiring side, it's an efficient way to screen and vet candidates for basic skills. It's relatively low cost to the employer to have a recruiter issue the test. If you come up with yo…
The problem is that this doesn't scale with talent and/or experience: I certainly wouldn't be better at coding interviews than I was out of college. People who aren't great at hiring take an approach that's valid at the low level and extrapolate it well beyond the bounds where it makes sense.
On the other hand, this only works if the pedigree is recognizable and reliable. I can be pretty confident that I don't need to test basic coding literacy of someone who was an engineer at Google for four years, but I've interviewed people with ten years experience and great references who were clearly dumb as a brick during the interview. In one case, we hired the guy over my objection and spent the next year fighting the fires he'd set whenever he touched anything (the founder eventually found some relatively unimportant, isolated niche for him to keep busy in).
It's a really hard problem, and most complaints I've come across are generalizing from their skewed view of what the candidate pool is like (usually assuming that most candidates are roughly as talented as they are, when the reality is that many candidate pools consist of some of the dumbest people you're likely to ever encounter)
[1] ie, practically everyone