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I got asked LeetCode questions for a dev-ops systems engineering job today

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Re: I got asked LeetCode questions for a dev-ops systems engineering job today

#171

Post by Balgair »

Stronico wrote: post #155
mondoshawan wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the process you are pushing the candidate to the breaking point and eliminating any confidence they may have had in their abilities. They will end up demoralized and most likely fail the following interviews if they're the nervous sort. If they're smart, they'll bid you goodbye and you end up with a black eye reputation.

Any interview (of mine) is a conversation - they're not something you pass or fail - it's just a way for a potential employer and employee to get to know one another so they can make better decisions. Nobody won, lost, passed or failed. The interview is just there to provide more information to determine if the potential employer and employee would fit well together. If I were in an interview that was presented as a…

> Nobody won, lost, passed or failed

I mean, like, yeah they did. They either got the job or they did not.

Re: I got asked LeetCode questions for a dev-ops systems engineering job today

#173

Post by panopticon »

malvosenior wrote: post #116
tomp wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everything you say sounds extremely reasonable... but still, there are plenty of stories (mostly online, so they might not actually be true) of people hiring a person that aces (mostly non-technical) interviews only to show absolutely 0 actual technical skills on the job.

In my experience (also interviewing hundreds of people) this is totally an urban (internet) legend. Not once has someone been able to talk intelligently and at length about a project they built and the underlying technology choices and then been unable to deliver. Once you gain experience building things yourself, it's pretty easy to suss out whether someone is any good just by talking to them. No coding tests needed…

At one of my previous gigs, we managed to hire someone who couldn't write more than basic control structures. I have absolutely no clue how it happened as I wasn't involved with the interviewing process at the time. The people who were involved blamed the recruiting firm for not doing adequate technical screening, but that doesn't explain how this person passed the on-site interview they performed... At any rate, we let them go after 3 days.

I have no way to prove to veracity of my story, so feel free to add it to the "urban myth" pile. But it was extremely bizarre to experience.

Re: I got asked LeetCode questions for a dev-ops systems engineering job today

#174

Post by ViViDboarder »

skrebbel wrote: post #115
Stronico wrote: post #110

When interviewing people I usually push until I get the candidate to answer "I don't know" on SOMETHING, just to see if they can do it. Not everyone can, and a lot of people will happily come up with a technical word salad to hide their perfectly understandable ignorance on some obscure technical problem I just came up with. That way you get to hear how they ask technical questions. Asking questions is a valuable (an…

That's a trick question. Trick questions are bad because they test interviewing skill and not programming skill. It's a trick question because you want the interviewee to answer something different (I don't know) than what you're asking them to answer. Confident applicants might feel up to saying they don't know, but nervous people who are very self conscious in an interview setting may respond completely differently…

It’s not a trick question. I am expecting them to answer the questions honestly. If they know the answer, go ahead and answer correctly. If not, don’t pretend.

I don’t want to hire someone who isn’t going to admit the limits of their abilities, for whatever reason. Could be smugness or lack of confidence, either way it’s a bad signal.

Re: I got asked LeetCode questions for a dev-ops systems engineering job today

#175

Post by devonkim »

The issue I have with this interview style is that there’s no data to suggest that this results in selecting for engineers that can do the job best. Furthermore, it tends to leave rather little time for the candidate to ask many questions to the interviewers about things that may matter more such as “what does your code review process look like?” and “how are tests done?” Far too many times I’ve gone through these kinds of interviews and wound up in a horrendous codebase anyway, so fat good hiring for all these people that can do programming puzzles alright in an interview has done for an end result. The better indicator I’ve seen for that is a matter of culture and testing for that is really hard either direction.

I’m pretty happy with how my company does it now. A code sample on a fairly simple problem designed to determine how their pull requests would look as well as how much direction they need. On-site is a series of design discussions with algorithmic questions about data structures to use and the tools / services that make sense. Primarily meant to hire senior engineers rather than juniors, but that’s our objective now.

Re: I got asked LeetCode questions for a dev-ops systems engineering job today

#176

Post by rifung »

mondoshawan wrote: post #128
Stronico wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saying "I don't know" is an accurate answer. The ability to ask meaningful questions is a big part of any programming job. And (in my opinion) harder to learn than any particular technology.

Saying "I don't know" like this in an interview scenario is nearly impossible for most candidates and only serves to humiliate rather than prove their abilities. If you want to see them ask questions, give a half explanation of the problem at hand instead and guide them to ask more detailed technical questions. Be an ally, not an adversary, and you will find talent better than if you push.

> Saying "I don't know" like this in an interview scenario is nearly impossible for most candidates and only serves to humiliate rather than prove their abilities.

I don't think this is true only in interviews though. I have worked with people who can't seem to admit they don't know something and they're difficult to work with.

It's completely fine if you can't do something. What's not fine is that you fail to communicate it to those around you and create false expectations.

That being the case, I think it's fair to score a candidate negatively if they aren't able to say they don't know something.

Re: I got asked LeetCode questions for a dev-ops systems engineering job today

#178

Post by wool_gather »

RijilV wrote: post #169
wool_gather wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You make a fair point, but an interview is not solely about programming skill. It's also about being a co-worker. And the question "what does this person do in X situation", where X is "they don't know the answer to something they need to know'" is highly relevant. So there may be a better way to go about it, but the parent's desire is reasonable.

The deal is when you’re interviewing me we’re _not_ co-workers. You hold all of the cards and decide my fate. A big part of interviewing candidates well is breaking down that dynamic. There are many ways of doing it - I get up on the whiteboard first and write out my problem, and stay there until they’ve explained themselves and I need to get back to my notes so I don’t forget stuff. I phrase questions like “I need h…

> The deal is when you’re interviewing me we’re _not_ co-workers.

Not yet, but the purpose of the interview is to figure out whether we should be. (And I disagree that it is one sided; this whole topic is about an interviewee's evaluation of the process.)

Re: I got asked LeetCode questions for a dev-ops systems engineering job today

#179

Post by rifung »

malvosenior wrote: post #112
Stronico wrote: post #110

When interviewing people I usually push until I get the candidate to answer "I don't know" on SOMETHING, just to see if they can do it. Not everyone can, and a lot of people will happily come up with a technical word salad to hide their perfectly understandable ignorance on some obscure technical problem I just came up with. That way you get to hear how they ask technical questions. Asking questions is a valuable (an…

Doing this during a job interview is not going to give you the results you expect. For every person like you who wants to hear "I don't know" there are 10 people who will pass on you for not knowing something. People's expectations are set by the worst interviewers they experience, not the best (and honestly, trying to trap people isn't the "best" anyway).

I once told an interview I didn't know something and they told me that I should never say I don't know something and just try to make something up.

I don't really agree with him and just kept doing it though and things seems to be fine.. If anything I would say that interview was successful for both parties because we probably wouldn't get along and that is totally fine.

Re: I got asked LeetCode questions for a dev-ops systems engineering job today

#180

Post by diminoten »

Stronico wrote: post #110

When interviewing people I usually push until I get the candidate to answer "I don't know" on SOMETHING, just to see if they can do it. Not everyone can, and a lot of people will happily come up with a technical word salad to hide their perfectly understandable ignorance on some obscure technical problem I just came up with. That way you get to hear how they ask technical questions. Asking questions is a valuable (an…

Haha, I usually say "I don't know" right away, I feel like I'd short circuit this test.
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