Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

WeChat is Watching: Living in China with the app that knows everything about me

nautil.us

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

271–280 of 306 posts

Re: WeChat is Watching: Living in China with the app that knows everything about me

#271

Post by Barrin92 »

dlivingston wrote: post #210
ssnistfajen wrote: post #187

Facebook, Google, and Apple would all do the same thing WeChat/AliPay did if regulations in the West moved faster and were more accommodating. Nobody mandated the author to order delivery, follow social media, buy movie tickets, do online shopping, pay rent, use bikeshare, call cabs, etc, etc, etc. through WeChat. They are, for the most part, services owned by companies other than Tencent. WeChat just compiles a gian…

Is this fear-mongering? "Despite WeChat’s somewhat more private design, Amnesty International, in a 2016 report on user privacy, gave WeChat zero out of a 100 for its lack of freedom of speech protection and lack of end-to-end encryption. By comparison, Facebook scored 73. People are regularly arrested for messages they send in supposedly “private” group chats. In 2017, two people were arrested in Nanjing for separat…

>Is this fear-mongering?

depends on whether the action was taken by wechat or someone reported the user from the group, because if that's the case all the encryption in the world isn't going to help you. (and it's not particularly unlikely depending on the size)

Also as the other user suggested, you probably shouldn't advocate joining isis on a platform in a country where said action is illegal, wechat like any other company anywhere has the duty to enforce the law.

Re: WeChat is Watching: Living in China with the app that knows everything about me

#272

Post by badpun »

yorwba wrote: post #232
sirmike_ wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> China's system is so complicated and so far from a heavy-handed police state. No. China is not free. I am sorry you are fed up. But I bet millions of victims of Chinese oppression are in much dire condition and wish they could be fed up and not dead or disappeared. Xi Jinping is a dope. The amount of articulation of control China has over the its citizens is chilling. Defending China, Fuck the Chinese govt. I can s…

I think you misunderstand. China is not a heavy-handed police state not because everyone is perfectly free, but because not everyone is unfree. The police simply isn't equipped to oppress everyone, so it only hits an unlucky minority. It's just that in China minorities can comprise millions of people. So while in the worst case you might be executed and have your organs harvested, in the average case you'll not even…

Police state is more concerned with „crime” of subverting the ruling regime, not all crimes in general. See Stazi, with their absolutely vast network of informers - they too didn’t care if you avoided taxes or broke tenant laws.

Re: WeChat is Watching: Living in China with the app that knows everything about me

#273

Post by Avamander »

tepidandroid wrote: post #254
Avamander wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In general, the people of China are very happy with the progress that's being made (particularly true of the rural population who have witnessed in real-time, continuous improvements to their standard of living). "All for the common good." Didn't even realize that movie was a documentary about China. I find it appalling that you find the Chinese government even remotely okay, the Chinese government violates people'…

> I find it appalling that you find the Chinese government even remotely okay, the Chinese government violates people's basic human rights for just simply being a part of a minority. > The assertion that it's not a free country and horrific the worst way possible when you're a minority is absolutely true. It’s not absolutely true. I suggest you consult some independent sources for a more nuanced perspective other tha…

> There are dozens of ethnic minorities (yes, even Muslim minorities) that are prospering just fine along with the rest of China.

There are dozens that are fine and dozens that absolutely aren't. Don't try to reduce how serious putting thousands of people into a f* concentration camp in 2019 is.

Re: WeChat is Watching: Living in China with the app that knows everything about me

#274

Post by aembleton »

sonnyblarney wrote: post #229
ssnistfajen wrote: post #187

Facebook, Google, and Apple would all do the same thing WeChat/AliPay did if regulations in the West moved faster and were more accommodating. Nobody mandated the author to order delivery, follow social media, buy movie tickets, do online shopping, pay rent, use bikeshare, call cabs, etc, etc, etc. through WeChat. They are, for the most part, services owned by companies other than Tencent. WeChat just compiles a gian…

No, you are not going to get arrested in America for making a joke about George Washington. Enough with the irresponsible moral equivalence arguments. There are glaringly material differences between 'Google software scanning your mails to target ads' and 'the police having $2/hour folks reading private chats to arrest you for totally arbitrary reasons'.

It's not the US, but UK police do carry out arrests for jokes on social media:

- https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/12/23/glasgow-crash-tw...

- https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-43478925

- https://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/06/02/social_media_arrest...

Re: WeChat is Watching: Living in China with the app that knows everything about me

#275

Post by danShumway »

bllguo wrote: post #247
danShumway wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They were exposed on social media by an unauthorized 3rd party after they were uttered in private, right? That certainly sounds like someone was arrested for something they said in private. Maybe there's additional context I'm not understanding?

yes? The initial implication was that the police were monitoring the private chat, whereas the second article suggests that the police only became aware after the message was circulated. Surely you can see that these two situations paint different pictures regarding the Chinese surveillance apparatus.

Ah, gotcha. Yes, I do see a difference there.

So if I'm understanding correctly, it's not that the arrests didn't happen, or that they happened for a different reason, it's that the government isn't actively soliciting businesses for those kinds of tips. Their attitude is, "we'll arrest you if we hear about it."

Re: WeChat is Watching: Living in China with the app that knows everything about me

#276

Post by kahnpro »

yorwba wrote: post #232
sirmike_ wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> China's system is so complicated and so far from a heavy-handed police state. No. China is not free. I am sorry you are fed up. But I bet millions of victims of Chinese oppression are in much dire condition and wish they could be fed up and not dead or disappeared. Xi Jinping is a dope. The amount of articulation of control China has over the its citizens is chilling. Defending China, Fuck the Chinese govt. I can s…

I think you misunderstand. China is not a heavy-handed police state not because everyone is perfectly free, but because not everyone is unfree. The police simply isn't equipped to oppress everyone, so it only hits an unlucky minority. It's just that in China minorities can comprise millions of people. So while in the worst case you might be executed and have your organs harvested, in the average case you'll not even…

Sounds like you completely misunderstand what a police state is.

A police state does not require the police to be concerned with upholding the law. In fact there is usually a departure from the rule of law in police states.

As the other commenter mentioned, the police in a police state are usually concerned with maintaining order and protecting the power of the state or ruling faction, and policing people's behaviour to this end.

Re: WeChat is Watching: Living in China with the app that knows everything about me

#277

Post by the_resistence »

sreekanthr wrote: post #160
ConfusedDog wrote: post #47

> If it wasn’t for the fact that I grew up in London and use a VPN to jump the great firewall to keep in touch with my friends at home and use Google, I could go entire days without leaving WeChat. I wonder what VPN people use in China to access Google. When I was there last month, I couldn't find a single one that worked for more than a few days.

Express VPN work. Most of Tech Organizations have deal with Govt to allow them to access google & gmail. Best bet is to get International data roaming then use your phone to check email etc. If you are transiting via Singapore would recommend you to get a Singapore sim which supports international data roaming and using it in China.

A bunch work, you have to rotate thru them and have some self-hosted too I hear from friends. DWeb can't come quickly enough.

Re: WeChat is Watching: Living in China with the app that knows everything about me

#278

Post by yorwba »

kahnpro wrote: post #276
yorwba wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you misunderstand. China is not a heavy-handed police state not because everyone is perfectly free, but because not everyone is unfree. The police simply isn't equipped to oppress everyone, so it only hits an unlucky minority. It's just that in China minorities can comprise millions of people. So while in the worst case you might be executed and have your organs harvested, in the average case you'll not even…

Sounds like you completely misunderstand what a police state is. A police state does not require the police to be concerned with upholding the law. In fact there is usually a departure from the rule of law in police states. As the other commenter mentioned, the police in a police state are usually concerned with maintaining order and protecting the power of the state or ruling faction, and policing people's behaviour…

I mentioned the anecdote because it's the one case I personally experienced where the police actually got active on an issue, and nothing came of it. I know plenty of people whose behavior looks like it'd be policed (censorship circumvention is endemic, discussing events that reflect negatively on the government is common, some openly advocate e.g. for gay rights) but there's no indication the police are even aware of them.

I don't deny that e.g. forming an organization directly challenging the CCP's leadership would get you into deep trouble, but most activity below that threshold appears to go unpoliced. Even the currently ongoing student protest at Beijing Normal University's Zhuhai branch doesn't seem to have met any police resistance so far.

Re: WeChat is Watching: Living in China with the app that knows everything about me

#279

Post by zrobotics »

ubercow13 wrote: post #98
zrobotics wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We hat payments used to require a Chinese bank account, so we're essentially inaccessible to foreigners. This is secondhand knowledge, I've never used it, but I have heard this has changed. Perhaps since the account was created while this restriction was in place, the option was never enabled?

It's still not possible. If you have a foreigner WeChat account it's possible to enable the pay feature, but not possible to sign up for it without a Chinese bank card.

Thanks for the correction, I had either misheard or had been misinformed.

Re: WeChat is Watching: Living in China with the app that knows everything about me

#280

Post by tepidandroid »

Avamander wrote: post #273
tepidandroid wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I find it appalling that you find the Chinese government even remotely okay, the Chinese government violates people's basic human rights for just simply being a part of a minority. > The assertion that it's not a free country and horrific the worst way possible when you're a minority is absolutely true. It’s not absolutely true. I suggest you consult some independent sources for a more nuanced perspective other tha…

> There are dozens of ethnic minorities (yes, even Muslim minorities) that are prospering just fine along with the rest of China. There are dozens that are fine and dozens that absolutely aren't. Don't try to reduce how serious putting thousands of people into a f * concentration camp in 2019 is.

I’m not reducing anything. I’m simply pointing out facts that often get thrown under the bus for the sake of pushing a particular narrative - facts that contradict overly simplistic characterizations of their actions such as “they hate Muslims!” or “they hate freedom!”.

The fact is, the reality is much more nuanced than that. Painting the picture as black and white and then getting emotional over it helps nobody.

Post reply on HN