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Don't Glorify Dropping Out

theatlantic.com

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Re: Don't Glorify Dropping Out

#51

Post by enjo »

nkassis wrote: post #43
enjo wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My bet is that her expertise in English is vast and noteworthy. I don't deify the degree, but I certainly deify the accomplishment of earning a PhD. The fact that as an English PhD she was able to even get a job, much less a high paying one certainly implies that she's an expert in her field. I'm not arguing about her pay, that's up to the market. However, the condescending tone of your post shows that you have zero…

"PhD school (accounting)" that's an interesting choice. What kind of research or work does she do?

She studies behavioral accounting issues. Her dissertation was on the effect of internet stock message boards and their influence on investor decision making.

In her case she overlaps very heavily with behavioral economics (think freakonomics, predictably irrational, etc...). It can be pretty amusing watching these academics fight over what is in the realm of behavioral accounting and what is within economics. No one really knows;)

There is a capital markets side of accounting research which is much more focused on the analysis of accounting in the wild.

It is hard to sort of put your finger on what accounting research is. It does exist tho:)

Re: Don't Glorify Dropping Out

#52

Post by krschultz »

TomOfTTB wrote: post #19
watty wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

College isn't broken, it's just not for everyone. I don't regret my 4 years one bit, it was the best period of my life. I had some amazing social and educational experiences that I wouldn't have received had I not attended - who knew religion and geology could be so interesting? Most importantly I received a CS degree which helped me transition into the real world and be successful today. You may feel it was a waste…

The point is there's nothing you get from college that you couldn't get for free somewhere else (Internet for info and Industry gatherings for social aspects). College puts it together in a nice, easy to digest package but they vastly over charge for it. The college model is still based around a philosophy from the 1800s when they were the sole providers of information.

The perception that "IT'S ALL AVAILABLE ON THE INTERNET" is a strictly CS thing. Outside of programming, you will find drastically less information online for free.

Sure you can buy the same textbooks and push yourself through them, but I'm 100% sure it would have taken me longer than 4 years to learn as much on my own as I did in college that was directly relevant to my day to day job. I'm not even sure if I could have gotten through the high end math without a lot of help.

Would you like a self taught doctor over one with a degree?

Re: Don't Glorify Dropping Out

#53

Post by enjo »

mquander wrote: post #42
enjo wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think colleges just do a terrible job of actually saying what they do. The purpose of an undergraduate education isn't the simple transfer of knowledge, it's more about "learning how to learn." The thing I've noticed about the self-educated is that they are absolute experts in the thing(s) that they're really interested. It is rare indeed to meet someone whose intellectual curiosity takes them to the places that a…

It's equally rare to meet someone whose undergraduate education takes them to the places that a simple undergraduate education will. I'm 23, so I have plenty of friends and coworkers who are just recently out of state schools, and the vast majority sure as hell don't remember the classic novels that they might have skimmed over the course of two weeks, three years ago. I generally can't detect that they know anything…

Which is why I intentionally used the word "exposed":) I can't really recall very many specifics from my world literature classes either. However my psychology class taught me that the exposure to those novels and their concepts informs my decision making in some small way even today.

Re: Don't Glorify Dropping Out

#54

Post by markbao »

Funny this comes up, since I'm applying to this program (see profile). I think it's what I need in place of a college education. In other words, it's the right track for my post-secondary 'education' as opposed to college.

Re: Don't Glorify Dropping Out

#55

Post by mquander »

enjo wrote: post #53
mquander wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's equally rare to meet someone whose undergraduate education takes them to the places that a simple undergraduate education will. I'm 23, so I have plenty of friends and coworkers who are just recently out of state schools, and the vast majority sure as hell don't remember the classic novels that they might have skimmed over the course of two weeks, three years ago. I generally can't detect that they know anything…

Which is why I intentionally used the word "exposed":) I can't really recall very many specifics from my world literature classes either. However my psychology class taught me that the exposure to those novels and their concepts informs my decision making in some small way even today.

OK, I agree, for what that's worth.

Re: Don't Glorify Dropping Out

#57

Post by jey »

krschultz wrote: post #52
TomOfTTB wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is there's nothing you get from college that you couldn't get for free somewhere else (Internet for info and Industry gatherings for social aspects). College puts it together in a nice, easy to digest package but they vastly over charge for it. The college model is still based around a philosophy from the 1800s when they were the sole providers of information.

The perception that "IT'S ALL AVAILABLE ON THE INTERNET" is a strictly CS thing. Outside of programming, you will find drastically less information online for free. Sure you can buy the same textbooks and push yourself through them, but I'm 100% sure it would have taken me longer than 4 years to learn as much on my own as I did in college that was directly relevant to my day to day job. I'm not even sure if I could h…

> Would you like a self taught doctor over one with a degree?

The degree is for his/her own benefit. What I care about is whether the doctor is smart and well-informed.

No, I don't think that earning the right to use the suffix "M.D." means that the doctor is well-informed and knowledgeable.

Re: Don't Glorify Dropping Out

#58

Post by stanleydrew »

Aloisius wrote: post #21
Eliezer wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People like Sergey Brin & Larry Page will drop out, with or without Thiel's investment. That is probably precisely the part that Thiel disagrees with you about. Who knows how many would-be Brins and Pages couldn't afford the risk?

Risk adverse people aren't generally successful at founding startups.

Exactly. By reversing the equation and actually paying people to leave school and found startups Peter Thiel is likely going to get some people who are too risk averse to do it without a guaranteed reward. I'm not sure this is a preferable outcome, but surely he's thought of it and decided it was worth a try.

Re: Don't Glorify Dropping Out

#59

Post by TomOfTTB »

enjo wrote: post #29
TomOfTTB wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your point is well taken but I'd offer one caveat which is the people in Reminder #1 are a big part of the problem that creates Reminder #2. I recently attended a meeting between educators and future California Governor Jerry Brown. At that meeting I watched a woman with a doctorate in English scream at the future (and former) Mayor of California because he was telling her they'd have to cut her six figure salary. Ev…

My bet is that her expertise in English is vast and noteworthy. I don't deify the degree, but I certainly deify the accomplishment of earning a PhD. The fact that as an English PhD she was able to even get a job, much less a high paying one certainly implies that she's an expert in her field. I'm not arguing about her pay, that's up to the market. However, the condescending tone of your post shows that you have zero…

It doesn't matter what goes into a PHD process. In the real world you get respect for what you can do not the process by which you obtained skills. As I said the woman I was referring to admitted her students test scores were poor (though she blamed it on external factors)

So I'm absolutely condescending of people who think because they went through a process of any kind they are automatically entitled to respect and high pay. I respect people who prove their worth to society.

Re: Don't Glorify Dropping Out

#60

Post by wazzupflow »

krschultz wrote: post #44
AndrewWarner wrote: post #4

College is broken. Anyone who paid and went for 4 years, knows its an inefficient use of time and money. What we need to do is stop glorifying college.

I don't know, I went to college for 4 years, graduated and make $75k. I could never have the job I have right now without the college. I paid nothing for college because I had a scholarship, but I'm well aware of what college loan debt looks like. My girlfriend is currently paying off about a BMW worth of college loans. I point that out becuase I drive a 6 year old car and she drives a 7 year old car. If you take out…

Funny, I dropped out of college and make the same 75k as a developer...and just the other day I was explaining to my friend (with a Masters in CS) why aliases wouldn't work with his cron job. BUT, I was lucky, I STILL had to do the work to learn my field (web dev) and I had a LOT tougher time getting here. I think the one problem I have with some graduates though (not my friend), is this idea that society OWES them a good job/promotion etc... because of their degree.
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