What? Why not? The way things are going, your degree isn't worth as much as you'd like it to be and you'll probably be in debt for a while just to pay it off.
Don't Glorify Dropping Out
41–50 of 110 posts
Re: Don't Glorify Dropping Out
#42Earlier quoted context omitted.
The point is there's nothing you get from college that you couldn't get for free somewhere else (Internet for info and Industry gatherings for social aspects). College puts it together in a nice, easy to digest package but they vastly over charge for it. The college model is still based around a philosophy from the 1800s when they were the sole providers of information.
I think colleges just do a terrible job of actually saying what they do. The purpose of an undergraduate education isn't the simple transfer of knowledge, it's more about "learning how to learn." The thing I've noticed about the self-educated is that they are absolute experts in the thing(s) that they're really interested. It is rare indeed to meet someone whose intellectual curiosity takes them to the places that a…
It's equally rare to meet someone whose undergraduate education takes them to the places that a simple undergraduate education will. I'm 23, so I have plenty of friends and coworkers who are just recently out of state schools, and the vast majority sure as hell don't remember the classic novels that they might have skimmed over the course of two weeks, three years ago. I generally can't detect that they know anything at all that they didn't know in high school, outside of their major.
Re: Don't Glorify Dropping Out
#43Earlier quoted context omitted.
Your point is well taken but I'd offer one caveat which is the people in Reminder #1 are a big part of the problem that creates Reminder #2. I recently attended a meeting between educators and future California Governor Jerry Brown. At that meeting I watched a woman with a doctorate in English scream at the future (and former) Mayor of California because he was telling her they'd have to cut her six figure salary. Ev…
My bet is that her expertise in English is vast and noteworthy. I don't deify the degree, but I certainly deify the accomplishment of earning a PhD. The fact that as an English PhD she was able to even get a job, much less a high paying one certainly implies that she's an expert in her field. I'm not arguing about her pay, that's up to the market. However, the condescending tone of your post shows that you have zero…
"PhD school (accounting)" that's an interesting choice. What kind of research or work does she do?
Re: Don't Glorify Dropping Out
#44College is broken. Anyone who paid and went for 4 years, knows its an inefficient use of time and money. What we need to do is stop glorifying college.
I don't know, I went to college for 4 years, graduated and make $75k. I could never have the job I have right now without the college.
I paid nothing for college because I had a scholarship, but I'm well aware of what college loan debt looks like. My girlfriend is currently paying off about a BMW worth of college loans.
I point that out becuase I drive a 6 year old car and she drives a 7 year old car. If you take out what we're paying for student loans (and we're very aggressively trying to get rid of them so we can eact start businesses without debt), we could take that money and each lease a BMW.
Is that really that much of a sacrifice? I really think people are just overspending for college and it isn't the system that is broken, it is the decision making process high school students and their parents go through while picking their schools.
Re: Don't Glorify Dropping Out
#45It may not be an accredited institution, but Thiel is basically starting his own school and offering transfers, not telling people to drop out. I find it similar to Seth Godin's "MBA" program.
An education has 3 valuable components: the people it lets you meet, the experiences you get to have, and the story it lets you tell about yourself to future listeners. If you're not going down the path of a formal education, you still have to make sure you cover these bases.
Re: Don't Glorify Dropping Out
#46Earlier quoted context omitted.
The point is there's nothing you get from college that you couldn't get for free somewhere else (Internet for info and Industry gatherings for social aspects). College puts it together in a nice, easy to digest package but they vastly over charge for it. The college model is still based around a philosophy from the 1800s when they were the sole providers of information.
I agree that cost of college is too much - but you're not forced to go to a private or out of state school. In-state colleges are not terribly expensive, especially considering how many scholarships are available. As for getting the same experiences by not going, that's just silly. Sure the information is available online but it's not the same as actively participating in a lecture.
Come on, I'm sure Wikipedia holds office hours on hard topics right?
I spent a lot of time banging my head against the book (that you can buy from Amazon) and Googling, but eventually you run into things that only a professor's lecture, office hours, or your fellow classmates will teach you. That is what you are paying for. If you haven't run into that, you aren't taking classes that are hard enough or you are a genius. And even if you are a genius, you likely still struggle with hard topics sometimes.
Re: Don't Glorify Dropping Out
#47> But there's something to be said for a degree as employability insurance. There's something to be said for going out and learning how to get things done and build a business as well. A college degree is hardly insurance for anything. It's clear this guy doesn't have any actual experience with startups. He rattles off the usual talking points: > startups can be as profitable as a few are, only because the great majo…
If you take away the cost of college, would it ever be a bad idea to go? It is only 4 years (3.5 if you are ambition, but again, ignoring the cost I'd do it in 4 to gain breadth). Not only was it a really good learning experience, but it was a hell of a lot of fun and I made a lot of life long friends. 4 years seems like a long time to 18 year olds, but it is a very short time looking at it from the perspective of so…
Just to elaborate: Almost every single state has at least one reputable state school were things are absolutely affordable.
In Colorado (where I live) you can attend Metropolitan State for something like $15,000 for four years of school. That's a car payment.
University of Colorado Denver is something like $20,000 for the same degree.
The flagship school is closer to $40,000 for the same degree. The Colorado School of Mines (an outstanding engineering school) is in the same range. That's not a huge amount of money either. Just a nicer car payment.
note: Those figures include books, but not room and board.
I went to college in Arkansas for a lot less than that (they hand out scholarships like candy).
College costs have gotten out of control on the high end. You don't have to go to MIT, Harvard, or NYU. In state tuition is still really affordable for what you get out of it.
Re: Don't Glorify Dropping Out
#48Earlier quoted context omitted.
College isn't broken, it's just not for everyone. I don't regret my 4 years one bit, it was the best period of my life. I had some amazing social and educational experiences that I wouldn't have received had I not attended - who knew religion and geology could be so interesting? Most importantly I received a CS degree which helped me transition into the real world and be successful today. You may feel it was a waste…
The point is there's nothing you get from college that you couldn't get for free somewhere else (Internet for info and Industry gatherings for social aspects). College puts it together in a nice, easy to digest package but they vastly over charge for it. The college model is still based around a philosophy from the 1800s when they were the sole providers of information.
This is extremely naive. I could insert almost anything for 'college' in your first sentence and it would be "true."
But more than that, I think you're grossly underestimating the value of four years of collaborative work with other smart students and professors. I honestly don't see any way to get a half hour of a math professor's time, every week, for three months, without taking a course in mathematics at a university and going to office hours.
It may be that you think it is too expensive, which means it's not worth it. That's fair enough. But don't deceive yourself into thinking that college offers nothing that you can't obtain somewhere else.
Re: Don't Glorify Dropping Out
#49Reminder: People who think of themselves as getting prestige from their college education may view something that challenges the prestige of college as an attack on their hard-won status. Reminder 2: College is broken. It needs challenging.
College might suit some people better than others. What are your life goals: are you trying to fit in, or trying to stand out? You could argue that college is doing a decent job of the former, but failing at the latter. If you want to stand out then dropping out is probably a good idea (assuming it's done in pursuit of something ambitious).
Re: Don't Glorify Dropping Out
#50The glorification of dropping out may be a result of sample bias - journalists don't spill as much ink about the people who dropped out of college and ended up failing. That said, some dropouts scare me more than others. For instance, dropping out of high school to be an athlete, rock star, or actor seems very risky. It all worked out for Andre Agassi, but what would he have done if he'd only been a top 2,000 tennis player? Dropping out of college or (especially) grad school to become a startup founder seems much less so. If someone has succeeded through the first two years of computer science, they'll be able to go back and finish that degree if they are so inclined.
One major weakness of the article is that it points to the contributions of professors and researchers who made it all possible for gates, ellison, the google guys, and so forth by publishing unpatented research that served as the foundation for blockbuster companies. Great that they did this, of course, I love these guys, but he seems to be saying that everone else is depending on some other underpaid schlub to stick it through. Next career day, I'm going to go to my local college and say "some of you need to finish grad school and do PhD's - otherwise, how will other people get rich off your ideas?" Jeez, what a pitch.