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How to build something that lasts 10k years

bbc.com

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Re: How to build something that lasts 10k years

#91

Post by scrumbledober »

abdullahkhalids wrote: post #29
aetherspawn wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s a really interesting idea. If you plant a tree that lasts for 10,000 years (is there such?), I wonder if you can use its height or the shadow it casts (trunk thickness) to measure time. Of course, someone would just come and kill it. Unless you can make it undesirable to get close to it.. for example fill it with thousands of snakes and spiders.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_longest-living_organis... As far as we know, there are a few clonal plant colonies that have survived longer than 10K years. No individual plants have quite made it to 10K, but some have made it past 2-3K years.

Scientists recently discovered a bristlecone pine over 5000 years old https://www.livescience.com/29152-oldest-tree-in-world.html

Re: How to build something that lasts 10k years

#92

Post by TremendousJudge »

notfromhere wrote: post #82
EForEndeavour wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if Indiana-Jones-style death traps would successfully show trespassers that the site's builders were serious, or if this would only attract more curiosity.

the radiation is the death trap

I was thinking the same. However, the problem is not to avoid people from getting in and causing harm to themselves, but them getting the dangerous stuff out and causing harm to others who actually heeded the warnings. You'd need extremely strong radiation

Re: How to build something that lasts 10k years

#93

Post by agumonkey »

ninju wrote: post #89

The ROI for all the NASA investments >Over 20 years ago when I started this project in researching bearings, we found the perfect solution: an all ceramic bearing created for use in satellites and spacecraft >There was only one problem: when I first heard of these bearings, they cost tens of thousands of dollars and were only used in aerospace. >...they have become more common and are now used in roller blades and fi…

Who studies these evolutions ? Is there a fastest curve to low price ? not too fast to avoid killing incentives for people working on it in the first place but avoiding stalls too.

Re: How to build something that lasts 10k years

#94

Post by Balgair »

phito wrote: post #39
vincnetas wrote: post #10

Finland is building nuclear waste storage facility which is planned to last for 100.000 years. There are quite few interesting design decisions to be made taking this lifespan in to account, for example if current civilization will be wiped out, what symbols you should put on a door to discourage someone in future to opening the door. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onkalo_spent_nuclear_fuel_repo... https://www.youtube…

This place is a message... and part of a system of messages ...pay attention to it! Sending this message was important to us. We considered ourselves to be a powerful culture. This place is not a place of honor... no highly esteemed deed is commemorated here... nothing valued is here. What is here was dangerous and repulsive to us. This message is a warning about danger. The danger is in a particular location... it i…

As if Cesaer, Napoleon, Adolf, Stalin, Atilia, or Ghengis would not immediately rip that open and force slaves/captives to carry it into enemy camps and armies.

Guys, it's not the waste that's the problem here.

Re: How to build something that lasts 10k years

#95

Post by agumonkey »

vincnetas wrote: post #10

Finland is building nuclear waste storage facility which is planned to last for 100.000 years. There are quite few interesting design decisions to be made taking this lifespan in to account, for example if current civilization will be wiped out, what symbols you should put on a door to discourage someone in future to opening the door. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onkalo_spent_nuclear_fuel_repo... https://www.youtube…

Into Eternity is my favorite hard sci-fi video so far. It's such a simple and tangible question but so difficult to answer.

Re: How to build something that lasts 10k years

#96

Post by Tade0 »

smacktoward wrote: post #51
ddxxdd wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not exploit human evolutionary psychology for the task? A lawnmower warning label would communicate more to future civilizations than a poem translated in several dozen languages. ( https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/VJYAAOSw~xlaqj-d/s-l1600.jpg ) Gory imagery always gets the job done.

Except it doesn't, also because of psychology. The ancient Egyptians learned this the hard way. Many of their tombs were marked with graphic warnings threatening anyone who disturbed them with various horrible ends. But most of them were robbed regardless, and those that weren't were eventually cracked open by 19th and 20th century archaeologists. That wasn't because the people violating those tombs didn't understand…

How about actual corpses arranged so that they look as if they died violently?

Not the exact message, but definitely should give pause to anybody visiting the place in the far future.

Re: How to build something that lasts 10k years

#97

Post by 0xffff2 »

erentz wrote: post #67
modernerd wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The project's president has said that no symbols at all might be better than any universal warning symbol they could hope to produce, such as a skull and crossbones. Leaving the site unmarked could be less likely to encourage investigation and disturbance of it in the future. https://www.japantimes.co.jp/life/2012/01/15/general/danger-...

That makes more sense to me. It’s not like these waste canisters are going to somehow float to the surface. The biggest problem would have to be sealing the entrance and descending tunnels in such a way to keep the site hidden. Is that possible? If you could do that then the only danger would be a sufficiently advanced culture for some reason trying to drill or dig in that area. And why would they do that if the geol…

According to the Wikipedia article above:

>The Onkalo repository is expected to be large enough to accept canisters of spent fuel for around one hundred years, i.e. until around 2120.[10] At this point, the final encapsulation and burial will take place, and the access tunnel will be backfilled and sealed.

So they're already planning to fill the tunnels completely. Considering the depth of the main facility, I would think this will make it very difficult for a primitive civilization to reach the facility even if they found the former entrance and wanted to investigate.

Re: How to build something that lasts 10k years

#98

Post by saddestcatever »

fencepost wrote: post #81
phito wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This place is a message... and part of a system of messages ...pay attention to it! Sending this message was important to us. We considered ourselves to be a powerful culture. This place is not a place of honor... no highly esteemed deed is commemorated here... nothing valued is here. What is here was dangerous and repulsive to us. This message is a warning about danger. The danger is in a particular location... it i…

Are there recognized symbols for vomiting, diarrhea, hair loss, weight loss reaching near skeletal stages and finally death? Along with some kind of indicators for passage of time that seems more useful at least for high exposure areas.

Right. If you're assuming written language will have entirely changed, barring some earth-wide catastrophe we can (likely) assume a future civilization will understand the IDEA of radiation - making the actual danger and representation of radiation the most important element to communicate.

Re: How to build something that lasts 10k years

#99

Post by smacktoward »

Tade0 wrote: post #96
smacktoward wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except it doesn't, also because of psychology. The ancient Egyptians learned this the hard way. Many of their tombs were marked with graphic warnings threatening anyone who disturbed them with various horrible ends. But most of them were robbed regardless, and those that weren't were eventually cracked open by 19th and 20th century archaeologists. That wasn't because the people violating those tombs didn't understand…

How about actual corpses arranged so that they look as if they died violently? Not the exact message, but definitely should give pause to anybody visiting the place in the far future.

"Somebody made that place super dangerous to get into. There must be something really valuable in there!"

Re: How to build something that lasts 10k years

#100

Post by BurningFrog »

ninju wrote: post #89

The ROI for all the NASA investments >Over 20 years ago when I started this project in researching bearings, we found the perfect solution: an all ceramic bearing created for use in satellites and spacecraft >There was only one problem: when I first heard of these bearings, they cost tens of thousands of dollars and were only used in aerospace. >...they have become more common and are now used in roller blades and fi…

The Fidget Spinner is the new Tang?
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