So how do people now see whales or dolphins?
Boat? Swim?
Canada to ban keeping whales, dolphins in captivity
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Re: Canada to ban keeping whales, dolphins in captivity
#72So how do people now see whales or dolphins?
Go to BC and take a whale-watching tour. Dress warm.
Re: Canada to ban keeping whales, dolphins in captivity
#73Earlier quoted context omitted.
Upvoting because legit question offers an opportunity to inform. Most whales have a natural range of thousands of miles over the course of a year. Keeping them in tanks, no matter how generous to our eyes, is the equivalent of keeping a human in a bathroom for their entire life—-with exactly as little stimulation or variety as that implies. Another response observes that whales in captivity always develop at least so…
“At one time, the argument was made that having them perform for crowds was necessary to keep them from going crazy.” I think that’s actually a valid argument if you keep something in captivity. When you put humans in jail it’s also better to give them something to do instead of just having them sit around. Freedom is still the best option though.
This study seems to show that training by humans to perform in shows had a negative effect on juvenile orcas.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4997274/
>From 1979 to 1980, however, we were able to interact with juvenile orcas in an unstructured way at San Diego’s SeaWorld facility. We observed in the animals what appeared to be pranks, tests of trust, limited use of tactical deception, emotional self-control, and empathetic behaviors. Our observations were consistent with those of a former Seaworld trainer, and provide important insights into orca cognition, communication, and social intelligence. However, after being trained as performers within Seaworld’s commercial entertainment program, a number of orcas began to exhibit aggressive behaviors. The orcas who previously established apparent friendships with humans were most affected, although significant aggression also occurred in some of their descendants, and among the orcas they lived with.
Re: Canada to ban keeping whales, dolphins in captivity
#74Let’s hope this will soon be extended to other animals like bears, mountain lions and other who have huge ranges they usually live in. They develop a lot of psychotic behavior in captivity like constant pacing and others. Not sure if it’s much better but at a minimum they should be kept in large areas like parks where you then drive through so they have some area to roam.
I really don't like zoos because the animals do often look sad and in limited space (I really prefer aquariums, those without dolphins), but at the same time: you have to remember the purpose of a zoo.
Many of them take animals that are rescues, have serious injuries and many can't be returned to the wild. Some zoos have breeding programs and attempt breeding and release work. Some zoos even have endlings, the last of a species that can only survive (for now) in captivity.
Most zoos are small and bad, but there are a few good ones that try to provide a good amount of space and comfortable living for animals. The San Diego Zoo, Cincinnati Zoo and Melbourne Zoo are all good examples.
Re: Canada to ban keeping whales, dolphins in captivity
#75The kid in me says oh no. But this is an applaudable move by the Canadians. It’s terrible to keep these animals that are used to moving large distances in glass boxes.
Re: Canada to ban keeping whales, dolphins in captivity
#76Somewhat on a tangent but the podcast "Undiscovered" featured an episode that discussed American's evolving relationship with whales and dolphins and how, in a very short period, they went from being perceived as food and fertilizer to centerpieces of the environmental movement. It's a great listen [0].
Re: Canada to ban keeping whales, dolphins in captivity
#77Let’s hope this will soon be extended to other animals like bears, mountain lions and other who have huge ranges they usually live in. They develop a lot of psychotic behavior in captivity like constant pacing and others. Not sure if it’s much better but at a minimum they should be kept in large areas like parks where you then drive through so they have some area to roam.
Zoos like the San Diego wildlife park (it's separate from the older San Diego Zoo, and outside the city a little) are good this way: they have lots of room for the animals to roam and it's more like their natural habitats. Also, with some animals, keeping them in zoos in the best place for them because they wouldn't survive in the wild. Many zoos have permanently injured birds, for instance, that can't fly any more,…
Some zoos also undertake conservation efforts such as captive breeding and reintroduction. [0] is just one example. I hope bills like this don't swing the pendulum too far and end up hindering conservation.
[0] http://www.torontozoo.com/Conservation/captive-breeding.asp
Re: Canada to ban keeping whales, dolphins in captivity
#78I get all the problems for the animals and not suggesting that they should continue to endure those problems, but I hate to see the general public's access to nature further curtailed. The mainstream seems to love wild places and wild life as long as it's on Youtube yet they spend the entirety of their own lives in suburbs and retail landscapes with virtually no direct experience with nature. I wonder how many childr…
Aquariums won't go away any time soon, and I prefer them. Most fish don't care or can't tell their in captivity. I've seen a few were their otter exhibits seem questionable, but most have enough space. Very few aquariums have dolphins and whales and these animals really shouldn't be in such small spaces.
You can still see dolphins and whales, it just takes more effort. The ferry between the North and South island in New Zealand is often followed by bottle nose dolphins. There are tour groups in Seattle that take people into the sound to track down Orcas. You can even come across seals sometimes out of the rocks, if you cycle around coastal areas.
Re: Canada to ban keeping whales, dolphins in captivity
#79Let’s hope this will soon be extended to other animals like bears, mountain lions and other who have huge ranges they usually live in. They develop a lot of psychotic behavior in captivity like constant pacing and others. Not sure if it’s much better but at a minimum they should be kept in large areas like parks where you then drive through so they have some area to roam.
Zoos like the San Diego wildlife park (it's separate from the older San Diego Zoo, and outside the city a little) are good this way: they have lots of room for the animals to roam and it's more like their natural habitats. Also, with some animals, keeping them in zoos in the best place for them because they wouldn't survive in the wild. Many zoos have permanently injured birds, for instance, that can't fly any more,…
There’s an aviary that does exactly this in Salt Lake City with bald eagles, vultures, flamingos, owls, and others. It’s worth a visit if in the area. https://tracyaviary.org/
Re: Canada to ban keeping whales, dolphins in captivity
#80I get all the problems for the animals and not suggesting that they should continue to endure those problems, but I hate to see the general public's access to nature further curtailed. The mainstream seems to love wild places and wild life as long as it's on Youtube yet they spend the entirety of their own lives in suburbs and retail landscapes with virtually no direct experience with nature. I wonder how many childr…
I grew up with zoos and aquariums, and I have fond memories of them. But of course, I wasn't kept in one. And furthermore... Zoos and aquariums are not nature. They are exhibits in a kind of museum. If we want people to see nature, we have to preserve actual nature and encourage people to visit it. Visiting a zoo is not visiting nature, and I personally worry that equivocating the two is dangerous. I would not want p…
What do you think about national parks? I've been to a few and .. I dunno. I find it weird we pay to get into a federal park. I feel like the money exchange encourages them to advertise passes, and draws in more people. These parks are often overcrowded with so many people filling up parking lots to see nature.
When you start building paths and roads and hiring rangers, you do make it safer for people to see these great areas, but you also put a system in place that's makes it not quite what it was.