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Canada to ban keeping whales, dolphins in captivity

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Re: Canada to ban keeping whales, dolphins in captivity

#61

Post by officeplant »

maxxxxx wrote: post #51
fatbird wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Upvoting because legit question offers an opportunity to inform. Most whales have a natural range of thousands of miles over the course of a year. Keeping them in tanks, no matter how generous to our eyes, is the equivalent of keeping a human in a bathroom for their entire life—-with exactly as little stimulation or variety as that implies. Another response observes that whales in captivity always develop at least so…

“At one time, the argument was made that having them perform for crowds was necessary to keep them from going crazy.” I think that’s actually a valid argument if you keep something in captivity. When you put humans in jail it’s also better to give them something to do instead of just having them sit around. Freedom is still the best option though.

Now I almost feel less disturbed about a prison that puts on a rodeo in my state.

Re: Canada to ban keeping whales, dolphins in captivity

#62

Post by maxxxxx »

officeplant wrote: post #61
maxxxxx wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“At one time, the argument was made that having them perform for crowds was necessary to keep them from going crazy.” I think that’s actually a valid argument if you keep something in captivity. When you put humans in jail it’s also better to give them something to do instead of just having them sit around. Freedom is still the best option though.

Now I almost feel less disturbed about a prison that puts on a rodeo in my state.

Rodeo is animal abuse so I don’t support that. But otherwise it’s good for prisoners to have something to do. I have read about programs where they train dogs. If i was in prison I’d be happy to do that.

Re: Canada to ban keeping whales, dolphins in captivity

#63

Post by [deleted] »

Ensorceled wrote: post #12
blakesterz wrote: post #4

"Monday's vote notably impacts Marineland, the Niagara Falls amusement park and zoo that is considered the last Canadian park committed to keeping cetaceans in captivity." Wow, so they passed a national law that essentially targets just a single park? How often does that happen anywhere? (I know the back story but I never knew Marineland was the only place... not saying this is wrong or right, just surprised)

Our current Prime Minister is a big fan of making grand statements when it comes to progressive issues[1]. This is as much a message to the rest of the world as to Canadians. [1] This isn't a criticism, per se, but this propensity does tend to get Trudeau and his party into trouble. I voted for his government in the last election and fully support this law.

[deleted]

Re: Canada to ban keeping whales, dolphins in captivity

#64

Post by JoeAltmaier »

diveanon wrote: post #58

I believe it will one day be possible to use AI techniques to communicate directly with these animals. I have often thought about running whale song through a RNN and broadcasting underwater to listen for responses. We don't need to go to other planets to find intelligent nonhuman life, it is already here and we are wiping them out and enslaving them. Our grandchildren will learn about this genocide in the same way w…

I'm not so sure. Big brain not the same as 'intelligent'.

A story: every year a Japanese dog food company goes to a certain island lagoon where dolphins migrate to reproduce. They net and kill thousands and take them away.

Each year some dolphins escape, inevitably. They swim around for a year, and then the next year come back (with many other dolphins) to the lagoon, and likely get netted and killed.

Didn't they remember what happened? Didn't they communicate it to other dolphins? Don't they care?

I have to conclude either

   Dolphins are not smart enough to remember from year to year,

  or Dolphins can't communicate with other dolphins in a sophisticated enough way to say "danger! evil here!" which is pretty basic,

 or Dolphins are dicks and don't care if other dolphins are killed,

 or heck, maybe Dolphins, like Klingons, enjoy the challenge? "Today is a good day to die!"
I conclude that, in none of these scenarios, is there much wrong with killing dolphins for dog food. Not in a 'killing our sentient brothers!' way.

Re: Canada to ban keeping whales, dolphins in captivity

#65

Post by [deleted] »

maxxxxx wrote: post #60

Let’s hope this will soon be extended to other animals like bears, mountain lions and other who have huge ranges they usually live in. They develop a lot of psychotic behavior in captivity like constant pacing and others. Not sure if it’s much better but at a minimum they should be kept in large areas like parks where you then drive through so they have some area to roam.

[deleted]

Re: Canada to ban keeping whales, dolphins in captivity

#66

Post by celticninja »

mbostleman wrote: post #55

I get all the problems for the animals and not suggesting that they should continue to endure those problems, but I hate to see the general public's access to nature further curtailed. The mainstream seems to love wild places and wild life as long as it's on Youtube yet they spend the entirety of their own lives in suburbs and retail landscapes with virtually no direct experience with nature. I wonder how many childr…

Look what happens when people visit a place because it looks good on youtube, Everest is a prime example. All those people going into the wild to see it firsthand will fuck it up, damage and pollute it. The very wildlife they wanted to see would be destroyed in time.

Re: Canada to ban keeping whales, dolphins in captivity

#67

Post by loceng »

braythwayt wrote: post #59
mbostleman wrote: post #55

I get all the problems for the animals and not suggesting that they should continue to endure those problems, but I hate to see the general public's access to nature further curtailed. The mainstream seems to love wild places and wild life as long as it's on Youtube yet they spend the entirety of their own lives in suburbs and retail landscapes with virtually no direct experience with nature. I wonder how many childr…

I grew up with zoos and aquariums, and I have fond memories of them. But of course, I wasn't kept in one. And furthermore... Zoos and aquariums are not nature. They are exhibits in a kind of museum. If we want people to see nature, we have to preserve actual nature and encourage people to visit it. Visiting a zoo is not visiting nature, and I personally worry that equivocating the two is dangerous. I would not want p…

Encourage through funding people to visit and be in nature - similar benefits of developing interconnection by traveling and doing exchanges around the world.

Re: Canada to ban keeping whales, dolphins in captivity

#68

Post by braythwayt »

blakesterz wrote: post #4

"Monday's vote notably impacts Marineland, the Niagara Falls amusement park and zoo that is considered the last Canadian park committed to keeping cetaceans in captivity." Wow, so they passed a national law that essentially targets just a single park? How often does that happen anywhere? (I know the back story but I never knew Marineland was the only place... not saying this is wrong or right, just surprised)

Marineland:

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/1241961--marinela...

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/1253334--marinela...

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/xd43jj/marineland-is-a-he...

And there's lots more, it only takes a few moments with web search to turn up plenty of allegations that Marineland and its owner are toxic.

Re: Canada to ban keeping whales, dolphins in captivity

#69

Post by magduf »

maxxxxx wrote: post #60

Let’s hope this will soon be extended to other animals like bears, mountain lions and other who have huge ranges they usually live in. They develop a lot of psychotic behavior in captivity like constant pacing and others. Not sure if it’s much better but at a minimum they should be kept in large areas like parks where you then drive through so they have some area to roam.

Zoos like the San Diego wildlife park (it's separate from the older San Diego Zoo, and outside the city a little) are good this way: they have lots of room for the animals to roam and it's more like their natural habitats.

Also, with some animals, keeping them in zoos in the best place for them because they wouldn't survive in the wild. Many zoos have permanently injured birds, for instance, that can't fly any more, and there's also albino animals (like white tigers) that can't live in the wild.

Re: Canada to ban keeping whales, dolphins in captivity

#70

Post by JohnJamesRambo »

mbostleman wrote: post #55

I get all the problems for the animals and not suggesting that they should continue to endure those problems, but I hate to see the general public's access to nature further curtailed. The mainstream seems to love wild places and wild life as long as it's on Youtube yet they spend the entirety of their own lives in suburbs and retail landscapes with virtually no direct experience with nature. I wonder how many childr…

Are confined animals in a park nature? Or just an imitation of it?
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