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An American Black Site

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Re: An American Black Site

#31

Post by heraclius »

josefresco wrote: post #26

Setting aside this specific situation. Let's say you run a prison, and an inmate goes on a "hunger strike" for a reason that's important to them. What should the prison operators do? Force feed the inmate, negotiate, give into their demands, or let them die? Let's say you try to negotiate, but the inmate is making unreasonable demands or you are not willing to meet their demands, then what?

They should be allowed to die. This is the reasonable position. Societal reaction to such action may change administrative policy, but it would do so through entirely proper political channels. The job of the civil servant is to implement policy and advise, not to determine or defend it from changes made in a proper fashion.

Re: An American Black Site

#32

Post by dtornabene »

T4NG wrote: post #18

Why isn't there more of a highlight on Salameh's actual charges. This is grossly glossed over especially when understanding what you have to do to land oneself in a blacksite to begin with.

yeah, tell that to the black teenagers dragged to Homan Square in Chicago

Re: An American Black Site

#33

Post by heraclius »

threezero wrote: post #3

The author really glossed over the reasons for the communications ban imposed on the terrorist prisoner - multiple people he spoke with ended up committing terrorist acts. Seems like a good enough reason to completely cut him off. In addition, the author really stretches when she complains that they brought in a gallon of liquid to feed him. If you’ve tried to feed a prisoner multiple times and you know they’re going…

The restrictions placed upon the fellow are more “capricious” in the words of the judge than necessary. Perhaps all his communications need to be read. I somehow doubt that prevention of communications by his lawyers is an important part of counter-terrorism, or that it can take more than a day or two to make sure that correspondence does not promote terrorism.

And I fail to see why we should force-feed a prisoner in the first place, which is the main problem.

Re: An American Black Site

#34

Post by dsfyu404ed »

pwinnski wrote: post #16
iooi wrote: post #13

Wow, can't believe how one sided some people can be and still call themselves journalists. This is the only mention of why he is in jail: > After his conviction in 1994 on terrorism-related charges A euphemism if I ever heard one, he was directly involved in the 1993 WTC bombing [1], way to gloss over that.. I'm not justifying "torture", but it puts things in perspective. Six people died in that attack, including a p…

When you start a sentence with "I'm not justifying 'torture,' but..." you really need to take a very long hard look at what you're saying. Either this treatment isn't acceptable for anyone, or it is. If you think it is, own it. If it isn't, then it doesn't matter what he's in for.

On one hand your right, he's trying to justify torture and most of us here probably don't agree with that.

On the other hand statements of the "when you start a sentence with X then you're wrong" variety are just a more wordy and upscale analog of the jerks who are posting "yikes" in reply to any comment they don't like on Reddit and add nothing to the conversation.

Re: An American Black Site

#35

Post by pmoriarty »

moose462 wrote: post #9
hdfbdtbcdg wrote: post #7

Why are western nations retreating from any semblance of the moral high ground?

It's our moral high ground that stops us from killing the terrorist or letting him starve himself to death.

"It's our moral high ground that stops us from killing the terrorist or letting him starve himself to death."

The US kills alleged terrorists (or allegedly suspected terrorists) all the time via drone bombings and various other military actions, and has also killed them in captivity -- all this usually without any kind of trial.

As for keeping them from starving to death, the prisoners seem to prefer to die of starvation rather than be tortured in prison for the rest of their lives. In this case, letting them die may be less cruel than forcing them to live. Not to mention that force feeding is itself a form of torture.

There is no moral high ground here.

Re: An American Black Site

#36

Post by [deleted] »

josefresco wrote: post #26

Setting aside this specific situation. Let's say you run a prison, and an inmate goes on a "hunger strike" for a reason that's important to them. What should the prison operators do? Force feed the inmate, negotiate, give into their demands, or let them die? Let's say you try to negotiate, but the inmate is making unreasonable demands or you are not willing to meet their demands, then what?

[deleted]

Re: An American Black Site

#37

Post by dang »

x86_64Ubuntu wrote: post #15
iooi wrote: post #13

Wow, can't believe how one sided some people can be and still call themselves journalists. This is the only mention of why he is in jail: > After his conviction in 1994 on terrorism-related charges A euphemism if I ever heard one, he was directly involved in the 1993 WTC bombing [1], way to gloss over that.. I'm not justifying "torture", but it puts things in perspective. Six people died in that attack, including a p…

We don't demand Supermax treatment for 5 victims, or 4 or 3 so why now? And it's hard to take your lust for draconian punishment seriously when many in the US are celebrating Gallagher who is up for shooting elderly and children.

Please don't take HN threads further into flamewar, and especially don't do personal attack or call names in arguments.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: An American Black Site

#38

Post by AnimalMuppet »

danharaj wrote: post #30
Fenrisulfr wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I agree with humane treatment of prisoners, that's a very slippery argument. Every prison is technically inhumane enough to send some people to attempt suicide.

Makes you think, doesn't it?

Well, what's your alternative? The death penalty? Release them?

Re: An American Black Site

#39

Post by iooi »

josefresco wrote: post #26

Setting aside this specific situation. Let's say you run a prison, and an inmate goes on a "hunger strike" for a reason that's important to them. What should the prison operators do? Force feed the inmate, negotiate, give into their demands, or let them die? Let's say you try to negotiate, but the inmate is making unreasonable demands or you are not willing to meet their demands, then what?

To everyone saying to let them die, then where is the punishment? Most terrorists would rather and, in fact, intend to die during their attacks. If you let them die, not only are you giving them what they want, but then there is no deterrent to carrying out suicide missions.

Re: An American Black Site

#40

Post by Ill_ban_myself »

hdfbdtbcdg wrote: post #7

Why are western nations retreating from any semblance of the moral high ground?

Why is western news media intentionally muddying the waters of public perception by comparing an American blacksite to everything in a sensationalist manner?

Let's save, "Nazi" and "Guantanamo" for the men who did the deeds.

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