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An American Black Site

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Re: An American Black Site

#21

Post by AnimalMuppet »

roywiggins wrote: post #4
threezero wrote: post #3

The author really glossed over the reasons for the communications ban imposed on the terrorist prisoner - multiple people he spoke with ended up committing terrorist acts. Seems like a good enough reason to completely cut him off. In addition, the author really stretches when she complains that they brought in a gallon of liquid to feed him. If you’ve tried to feed a prisoner multiple times and you know they’re going…

Force feeding is arguably a form of torture. https://www.apnews.com/e0941d7d1b0d413b9d9a0b792c34dd26

Arguably. But if you let the prisoner die while in your custody, a lot more people are going to be screaming about how evil you are to allow that, and how it's your fault that they died because you didn't protect them, and it's even more your fault because you probably wanted them dead and at least encouraged it to happen, and and and...

Re: An American Black Site

#22

Post by mikeash »

hdfbdtbcdg wrote: post #7

Why are western nations retreating from any semblance of the moral high ground?

It’s just exposure and acceptance (or lack thereof).

Fifty years ago we (the US) were carpet bombing neutral countries as part of a bloody war to prop up a brutal dictatorship.

Around the same time, we were shooting protestors and systematically shutting minorities out of civic involvement.

A couple of decades before that, we put a hundred thousand innocent civilians in concentration camps because of their ancestry.

Less than a century before that, “the land of the free” had laws allowing people to buy and sell other people. And slavery was never really ended: the 13th Amendment has a big fat exception for prisoners, which we’ve taken advantage of ever since.

What’s different now is that we find out what’s happening more quickly and in a way that makes more people take notice.

Re: An American Black Site

#23

Post by DuskStar »

roywiggins wrote: post #8

> family members and attorneys in touch with SAMs prisoners can be prosecuted and incarcerated for repeating anything the inmate told them This is interesting and I'd be very curious to know what the courts have made of this kind of prior restraint. I'm not skeptical that threats of this nature have been made, but I am skeptical that such a prosecution could actually be brought- under what statute? Lawyers may be gag…

I imagine that it isn't actually prior restraint in the classic sense, but instead in the form of an agreement that the lawyers and family members have to sign before talking to the prisoners in question.

Re: An American Black Site

#24

Post by afandian »

T4NG wrote: post #18

Why isn't there more of a highlight on Salameh's actual charges. This is grossly glossed over especially when understanding what you have to do to land oneself in a blacksite to begin with.

It's pretty sinister that your first response is not to address the torture but "he must be guilty of something". The US has done plenty to demonstrate it will do far worse without wrongdoing by the victim.

Re: An American Black Site

#25

Post by mikeash »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #21
roywiggins wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Force feeding is arguably a form of torture. https://www.apnews.com/e0941d7d1b0d413b9d9a0b792c34dd26

Arguably. But if you let the prisoner die while in your custody, a lot more people are going to be screaming about how evil you are to allow that, and how it's your fault that they died because you didn't protect them, and it's even more your fault because you probably wanted them dead and at least encouraged it to happen, and and and...

Maybe we should house these prisoners under conditions where they don’t become suicidal, then.

Re: An American Black Site

#26

Post by josefresco »

Setting aside this specific situation. Let's say you run a prison, and an inmate goes on a "hunger strike" for a reason that's important to them. What should the prison operators do? Force feed the inmate, negotiate, give into their demands, or let them die? Let's say you try to negotiate, but the inmate is making unreasonable demands or you are not willing to meet their demands, then what?

Re: An American Black Site

#27

Post by nabla9 »

josefresco wrote: post #26

Setting aside this specific situation. Let's say you run a prison, and an inmate goes on a "hunger strike" for a reason that's important to them. What should the prison operators do? Force feed the inmate, negotiate, give into their demands, or let them die? Let's say you try to negotiate, but the inmate is making unreasonable demands or you are not willing to meet their demands, then what?

People should be able to control their bodies. If you don't want to eat. Nobody should force feed you.

Re: An American Black Site

#28

Post by Fenrisulfr »

mikeash wrote: post #25
AnimalMuppet wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Arguably. But if you let the prisoner die while in your custody, a lot more people are going to be screaming about how evil you are to allow that, and how it's your fault that they died because you didn't protect them, and it's even more your fault because you probably wanted them dead and at least encouraged it to happen, and and and...

Maybe we should house these prisoners under conditions where they don’t become suicidal, then.

While I agree with humane treatment of prisoners, that's a very slippery argument. Every prison is technically inhumane enough to send some people to attempt suicide.

Re: An American Black Site

#29

Post by [deleted] »

nabla9 wrote: post #27
josefresco wrote: post #26

Setting aside this specific situation. Let's say you run a prison, and an inmate goes on a "hunger strike" for a reason that's important to them. What should the prison operators do? Force feed the inmate, negotiate, give into their demands, or let them die? Let's say you try to negotiate, but the inmate is making unreasonable demands or you are not willing to meet their demands, then what?

People should be able to control their bodies. If you don't want to eat. Nobody should force feed you.

[deleted]

Re: An American Black Site

#30

Post by danharaj »

Fenrisulfr wrote: post #28
mikeash wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe we should house these prisoners under conditions where they don’t become suicidal, then.

While I agree with humane treatment of prisoners, that's a very slippery argument. Every prison is technically inhumane enough to send some people to attempt suicide.

Makes you think, doesn't it?
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