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New Evidence of Age Bias in Hiring, and a Push to Fight It

nytimes.com

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Re: New Evidence of Age Bias in Hiring, and a Push to Fight It

#421

Post by lotsofpulp »

pmiller2 wrote: post #418
fjsolwmv wrote: post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because there is more money in SV. All else equal financially, as it was in 1960s, CA is better. Now all else is not equal, except that cost of living may have finally caught up so residents are paying what the weather is worth.

And why is there more money? Because more people want to live there than other places. Why is that? That’s where the jobs are. You’re not rebutting my argument at all.

The jobs were in other places too, but generally people with money move away from less desirable to more desirable places. How many people desire to move to a place is shown by the prices people are willing to pay.

Re: New Evidence of Age Bias in Hiring, and a Push to Fight It

#422

Post by wellpast »

pmiller2 wrote: post #415
wellpast wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They must to a significant degree or businesses would tank. The (open) question is, can we do better?

I’m on a team with 8 other people right now. All 9 of us are quite capable at our jobs. We all got through some sort of interview process to get there, of course, but that just means we weren’t weeded out. We weren’t false positives, in other words. But, why did we get through? Maybe the process really is capable of separating wheat from the chaff. Maybe the process works 85% of the time, and the 1 time it didn’t wor…

> The point is, just because a filter allows the right people through doesn’t mean it’s necessarily any good.

I define “good” and “right people” to be that which produces efficiency, quality, innovation in the business. So a good filter to me is good wrt these outcomes.

The industry is starving for ‘good people’ and ‘good outcomes’ and we should work to optimize this imo.

Any other measure divorced from outcome to me seems... weird.

Re: New Evidence of Age Bias in Hiring, and a Push to Fight It

#423

Post by [deleted] »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #421
pmiller2 wrote: post #418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And why is there more money? Because more people want to live there than other places. Why is that? That’s where the jobs are. You’re not rebutting my argument at all.

The jobs were in other places too, but generally people with money move away from less desirable to more desirable places. How many people desire to move to a place is shown by the prices people are willing to pay.

[deleted]

Re: New Evidence of Age Bias in Hiring, and a Push to Fight It

#424

Post by b3b0p »

aiisjustanif wrote: post #336
b3b0p wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not 48, I'm younger, but in my 30's. I only started the LeetCode study grind about a year or so go, but not consistently. I just got back from my onsite at a Big-N and pretty much bombed it. I gut nervous and forgot the easiest of questions. I lost my confidence. My mind went blank, my hands, nerves shaking. Couldn't write complete code or even sentences I think at times. It was bad. I was intimidated for no reas…

> I gut nervous and forgot the easiest of questions. I lost my confidence. My mind went blank, my hands, nerves shaking. Couldn't write complete code or even sentences I think at times. It was bad. I was intimidated for no reason. This happens to me too. > Will it ever end or am I stuck grinding for the rest of my career (life)? Will I ever be able just breathe and relax again? I'm not on the West coast, but intervie…

I'm currently in Minneapolis, downtown proper. I even own a condo in the middle of downtown. I don't even need a car and buses galore and multiple trains as well as a skyway for bad weather all within a block or less. I have Target, Whole Foods, Trader Joe's and Mall of America at my access. Oh, I'm also making 6 figures already.

That said, doubling my salary a Big-N for a few years and getting experience at a larger tech company is what I'm mostly chasing at the moment. I want the experience, I want to see what it's like for myself. I can just rent out the condo I have now easily, pack a bag of clothes and go.

Re: New Evidence of Age Bias in Hiring, and a Push to Fight It

#425

Post by pmiller2 »

wellpast wrote: post #422
pmiller2 wrote: post #415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m on a team with 8 other people right now. All 9 of us are quite capable at our jobs. We all got through some sort of interview process to get there, of course, but that just means we weren’t weeded out. We weren’t false positives, in other words. But, why did we get through? Maybe the process really is capable of separating wheat from the chaff. Maybe the process works 85% of the time, and the 1 time it didn’t wor…

> The point is, just because a filter allows the right people through doesn’t mean it’s necessarily any good. I define “good” and “right people” to be that which produces efficiency, quality, innovation in the business. So a good filter to me is good wrt these outcomes. The industry is starving for ‘good people’ and ‘good outcomes’ and we should work to optimize this imo. Any other measure divorced from outcome to me…

I wish I could talk about our recruiting funnel numbers. It is the farthest thing from efficient.

Triplebyte claims the industry average onsite pass rate is in the neighborhood of 30% (https://triplebyte.com/blog/12-000-engineers-evaluated). I suspect that the huge majority of those who fail onsites get jobs. Is that efficient?

Re: New Evidence of Age Bias in Hiring, and a Push to Fight It

#426

Post by scarface74 »

lallysingh wrote: post #417
scarface74 wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you live anywhere besides the west coast in a major city and have 7-10 years of experience you can easily make $130K as a senior developer. That puts you right at the 5th quintile of household income. If your spouse is making even $50K that puts you in the top decile. https://dqydj.com/household-income-percentile-calculator/ You don’t need to move into middle management to comfortable support a family.

And how are the schools? The quality of life? Vs just sucking it up and doing your own hacking on the own time. Even if you write code all day at work, you should be doing some at home, because we need to keep up on the latest tech in a risk-tolerant environment (like personal projects that can fail with no loss). Companies can't afford to take on the project risk of leading edge/research level tech. So hack on the c…

And how are the schools? The quality of life?

Like I said in another post, I just bought a 5 bedroom/3-1/2 bath house, 3000+ square foot house with a large office for $330K two years ago in the northern burbs of Atlanta where the school systems are ranked in the top 15% nationwide. It is the most affluent county in GA and one of the fastest growing in the nation. Three exits down the same size house is going for about $450K and you’re in one of the 10 most affluent cities in the nation -Johns Creek GA. (http://money.com/money/collection-post/4504851/richest-towns...)

Vs just sucking it up and doing your own hacking on the own time. Even if you write code all day at work, you should be doing some at home, because we need to keep up on the latest tech in a risk-tolerant environment (like personal projects that can fail with no loss). Companies can't afford to take on the project risk of leading edge/research level tech.

When I’m at home, I’m exercising, spending time with my wife and son, and just relaxing. If I can’t keep up with the latest tech at work, it’s time to change jobs.

Yes I will do work related side projects to learn a new to me technology, or proof of concepts with newer technology that aren’t on the critical path. I also work at small companies where I do get my hands dirty with everything from the front end to playing around with whatever I want to with a DEV AWS Account.

I don’t do “leading edge technology”. They are probably not widely marketable yet. I stay on the far end of “the slope of enlightenment” going to “Plateau of Productivity” of the Hype Cycle.

My resume is very buzzword compliant

Re: New Evidence of Age Bias in Hiring, and a Push to Fight It

#427

Post by scarface74 »

rolltiide wrote: post #414
scarface74 wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you live anywhere besides the west coast in a major city and have 7-10 years of experience you can easily make $130K as a senior developer. That puts you right at the 5th quintile of household income. If your spouse is making even $50K that puts you in the top decile. https://dqydj.com/household-income-percentile-calculator/ You don’t need to move into middle management to comfortable support a family.

Except you have to spend an entire month of your life commuting every year. Non-optimal. Gotta make more, gotta save more, gotta send your children to better school. And thats just the baseline.

My commute is 30-40 minutes a day on the three days a week I actually have to go into the office. Any job I work I make sure the “core hours” allow me to go into work after traffic dies down and leave before traffic picks up.

How do you think the other 80% of households survive that aren’t making the $130K that an average developer can make in any large city or if you’re a dual income earner with your spouse making about the average of a college educated worker of $50K - how do you think the other 90% of households make it?

But then again, I am also of the opinion that the school you go to doesn’t have as much bearing on your later success in life - as long as it safe and teaching the basics - your home environment.

I look at the top 20 students who went to my (relatively poor performing school) and we were all teacher’s kids or doctor’s kids. There are two doctors, a few teachers, one professor at an Ivey league school, and a lawyer or two.

But my current job is also in the northern burbs where I live.

Re: New Evidence of Age Bias in Hiring, and a Push to Fight It

#429

Post by NikkiA »

4ntonius8lock wrote: post #202
solidsnack9000 wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not being able to get a C-level position is a problem for a very small number of people. Not being able to get a job at all, on the other hand...

Walmart hires old people as greeters. I'm sorry, you don't get to say "poor old people who get discriminated on" while at the same time saying "young people should be discriminated on" or "it isn't as bad if the shoe is on the other foot". Given the strong reaction I'm getting from mostly old people who want to see discrimination on the young (or at least are happy to justify it) I'm starting to see why the article d…

If you think old people are only good for walmart greeters, then I think your problem with getting a C-level job might be the lack of empathy making you a total liability to hire in anything but bottom rung jobs.

Re: New Evidence of Age Bias in Hiring, and a Push to Fight It

#430

Post by [deleted] »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #421
pmiller2 wrote: post #418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And why is there more money? Because more people want to live there than other places. Why is that? That’s where the jobs are. You’re not rebutting my argument at all.

The jobs were in other places too, but generally people with money move away from less desirable to more desirable places. How many people desire to move to a place is shown by the prices people are willing to pay.

[deleted]
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