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How Fiat Chrysler’s Proposed Merger With Renault Crashed

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Re: How Fiat Chrysler’s Proposed Merger With Renault Crashed

#41

Post by benj111 »

chrisseaton wrote: post #20
benj111 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm dubious that accelerating out of danger is the 'best' option in any but the most contrived of circumstances.

I said 'safest' - I don't know who you're quoting with 'best'. But if your options are hard breaking or hard accelerating, it's easy to see when hard acceleration is better - when someone is immediately behind you and the road ahead is clear, and then for example someone swerving into your lane from the side

"when someone is immediately behind you and the road ahead is clear, and then for example someone swerving into your lane from the side"

If someone swerves into your lane you accelerate... into them? Unless its a really wide road (12 lanes?) where you have plenty of time to see that person, and somehow know they're going to pull into your lane, but you can't pull into another lane because Theres too much traffic. As I said, contrived examples.

(wasn't quoting you btw, just put best in inverted commas, as there's a lot of different interpretations for best)

Re: How Fiat Chrysler’s Proposed Merger With Renault Crashed

#42

Post by Intimatik »

GordonS wrote: post #23
petre wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, they are cheap. Not particulary reliable but okay, kind of like most French cars. They'll get you from point A to point B. They've got EVs. If you want a better trim you buy Nissan, which is more and more like an overpriced Renault. Not what they used to be. I remember the old Patrol GRs, built like a tank.

My personal experience of French cars is that they're cheap, but you get what you pay for. I recall a Renault Clio I had several years ago, bought new, where almost immediately after the 3 year warranty expired the problems stated - a door handle literally came off in my hand, the gear knob came off in my hand, and numerous electrical problems occurred. I made the mistake of buying French cars for years after that (b…

I salute to you, had the same impression on French cars.

Re: How Fiat Chrysler’s Proposed Merger With Renault Crashed

#43

Post by benj111 »

sl1ck731 wrote: post #27
benj111 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm dubious that accelerating out of danger is the 'best' option in any but the most contrived of circumstances.

Happens often on interstates. Only a couple days ago my only option was to get ahead of a semi that was intent on merging into my lane. The other option would have been to brake and hope I can decelerate fast enough to get out of the way of his entire trailer, and the traffic behind me doing 80 would have been a problem.

We will never know if he would have pulled into you had you not moved, or passed within the speed limit.

I find lorries start broadcasting what they're going to do quite early, that doesn't mean they're going to pull into a space you're already occupying, otherwise I would be dead many times over.

Re: How Fiat Chrysler’s Proposed Merger With Renault Crashed

#44

Post by sl1ck731 »

benj111 wrote: post #43
sl1ck731 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Happens often on interstates. Only a couple days ago my only option was to get ahead of a semi that was intent on merging into my lane. The other option would have been to brake and hope I can decelerate fast enough to get out of the way of his entire trailer, and the traffic behind me doing 80 would have been a problem.

We will never know if he would have pulled into you had you not moved, or passed within the speed limit. I find lorries start broadcasting what they're going to do quite early, that doesn't mean they're going to pull into a space you're already occupying, otherwise I would be dead many times over.

Well he was half in my lane by the time I overtook him without telegraphing his intent. Truck drivers are some of the worst drivers on the road, at least in the US. Though fatigue is probably a large factor.

Re: How Fiat Chrysler’s Proposed Merger With Renault Crashed

#45

Post by Theodores »

Camillo wrote: post #38
Theodores wrote: post #30

Although Renault have joint ventures and plenty of operations around the globe they are part owned by the French government and that government are keen to hold on to their auto sector. Their sector is different to what the German marques chase on the international stage, however, French cars are very popular in France. Whatever government is in Paris they are obligated to defend the French auto sector, they would be…

> Meanwhile, what does FIAT make in Italy these days? Quite a bit, it turns out: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Fiat_Group_assembly_si...

The Panda and the 500x. Those are the two models FIAT make in Italy with the FIAT badge on them.

The wider group makes Maserati and you don't see many of them in your supermarket car park.

The 500x is not to be confused with the multitude of other 500 models. As in the ones you actually see.

As for the Panda:

"The decision to manufacture the car in Italy, instead of manufacturing it with the cheaper workforce in Tychy, Poland, was taken because of the agreement between Italian Prime Minister Mario Monti and Fiat directors not to close down any of Fiat's plants in Italy."

Almost forgot about the Ducato van.

This gets more interesting as it is a joint venture with PSA. There are Peugeot and Citroen versions so exactly how a merger would work out with Renault could be interesting. Renault partner with Mercedes in the category.

So a few thousand Maserati things, the vans and a few cars kept being made in Italy so as to keep the government happy. It's a lot but not a lot.

Anyway, it is just final assembly we are talking about. Where do the components come from? The final bit of putting the jigsaw puzzle is what we all think a car factory is but there is always 10x the jobs in the component suppliers. Get rid of the factory though and the local demand for the components is gone. I suspect all the components business for FIAT has moved over to Poland and elsewhere for the same reasons - people don't have rentseekers demanding vast sums out of them every month in these 'lower wage' economies.

Re: How Fiat Chrysler’s Proposed Merger With Renault Crashed

#46

Post by hocuspocus »

rleigh wrote: post #21
hocuspocus wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same as cruise control, the limiter disengages when you floor the accelerator pedal.

It doesn't in my car (Nissan Qashqai). You can floor it and it will accelerate up to the limiter's setpoint and stay there. It would kind of defeat the point of it to disengage in this situation. I use it in 30 and 40mph zones, where there's a lot of traffic, speed cameras etc., and sticking the limiter on means you're not going to go over the limit.

From the first user manual I found with Google:

"It is also possible to override the speed limiter by fully depressing the accelerator pedal beyond the resistance point."

https://www.qashqaiforums.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=4256

Re: How Fiat Chrysler’s Proposed Merger With Renault Crashed

#47

Post by [deleted] »

benj111 wrote: post #41
chrisseaton wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I said 'safest' - I don't know who you're quoting with 'best'. But if your options are hard breaking or hard accelerating, it's easy to see when hard acceleration is better - when someone is immediately behind you and the road ahead is clear, and then for example someone swerving into your lane from the side

"when someone is immediately behind you and the road ahead is clear, and then for example someone swerving into your lane from the side" If someone swerves into your lane you accelerate... into them? Unless its a really wide road (12 lanes?) where you have plenty of time to see that person, and somehow know they're going to pull into your lane, but you can't pull into another lane because Theres too much traffic. As…

[deleted]

Re: How Fiat Chrysler’s Proposed Merger With Renault Crashed

#48

Post by chrisseaton »

benj111 wrote: post #41
chrisseaton wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I said 'safest' - I don't know who you're quoting with 'best'. But if your options are hard breaking or hard accelerating, it's easy to see when hard acceleration is better - when someone is immediately behind you and the road ahead is clear, and then for example someone swerving into your lane from the side

"when someone is immediately behind you and the road ahead is clear, and then for example someone swerving into your lane from the side" If someone swerves into your lane you accelerate... into them? Unless its a really wide road (12 lanes?) where you have plenty of time to see that person, and somehow know they're going to pull into your lane, but you can't pull into another lane because Theres too much traffic. As…

> If someone swerves into your lane you accelerate... into them?

Obviously not. Accelerate out of their way.

Re: How Fiat Chrysler’s Proposed Merger With Renault Crashed

#49

Post by benj111 »

chrisseaton wrote: post #48
benj111 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"when someone is immediately behind you and the road ahead is clear, and then for example someone swerving into your lane from the side" If someone swerves into your lane you accelerate... into them? Unless its a really wide road (12 lanes?) where you have plenty of time to see that person, and somehow know they're going to pull into your lane, but you can't pull into another lane because Theres too much traffic. As…

> If someone swerves into your lane you accelerate... into them? Obviously not. Accelerate out of their way.

"Obviously not"

Well I didn't think so either, I still don't see how it would work though, if they swerve into your lane ahead of you, you should brake, if they were behind you, you probably wouldn't see them, so there's a very narrow range where you can both see them and plausibly argue that accelerating is a reasonable option, and even then it seems to me at the very least, braking would be no worse.

Re: How Fiat Chrysler’s Proposed Merger With Renault Crashed

#50

Post by rleigh »

hocuspocus wrote: post #46
rleigh wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't in my car (Nissan Qashqai). You can floor it and it will accelerate up to the limiter's setpoint and stay there. It would kind of defeat the point of it to disengage in this situation. I use it in 30 and 40mph zones, where there's a lot of traffic, speed cameras etc., and sticking the limiter on means you're not going to go over the limit.

From the first user manual I found with Google: "It is also possible to override the speed limiter by fully depressing the accelerator pedal beyond the resistance point." https://www.qashqaiforums.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=4256

Interesting. I've not seen this happen in practice though (and I have tested it). I'll have to try pushing it right to the limit, which I don't normally do in 30 zones. Mine's a 2015 model; I don't know if there's any variation with earlier models' behaviour.
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