How Fiat Chrysler’s Proposed Merger With Renault Crashed • Hacker News Board

Re: How Fiat Chrysler’s Proposed Merger With Renault Crashed

#11

Post by Shivetya » Sat, Jun 08, 2019, 9:10 PM UTC

nimbius wrote: post #7

Disclosure: im an automotive mechanic for a chain of midwest shops. Chrysler has been the "frat boy on probation" for nearly 40 years now. Renault was wise to reconsider what they would get. wind back the clock to Daimler Chrysler and youll see there was nothing but mistrust from the start. German execs wanted an inroad into an american market segment that their luxury brands couldnt target at the time, and Chrysler…

Fiat got Chrysler to get Ram and Jeep. Ram took off very well and recently had landed many accolades for their trucks. Jeep turned around nicely but has seen a slide for the last few quarters but has a solid foundation of vehicles to include their first PHEV and pickup. Chrysler/Dodge are mostly sustained by their minivans. Chrysler/Dodge was the first of the American brands to ditch sedans. Ford and GM followed.

Challenger/Charger are FCA's pony cars kept to compete with Camaro and Mustang. Combine the two FCA cars with their sibling the 300 and that was nearly two hundred thousand sales, not bad for an old platform. What keeps them going, they don't get stuck with the same boring colors year to year and get other tweaks people want from them. However they are one of the biggest risk factors for FCA too as they are vulnerable to fuel prices.

Renault simply is not a good fit because getting Renault means taking France too and that would pretty much sink them in legacy costs and employment structures. The better opportunity is to look to both China but locally to move East into the long gone Warsaw pact states.

FCA's real loss was the passing of Marchionne before he could do an orderly and planned handing off control to a picked successor.

Re: How Fiat Chrysler’s Proposed Merger With Renault Crashed

#12

Post by kgwgk » Sat, Jun 08, 2019, 9:23 PM UTC

tyingq wrote: post #6

nxoxn wrote: post #5

The merger may have helped the companies technologically but from my naive perspective it seems like what each of the companies need more than anything is a stronger QA department. From what I hear about Renault they are a little shoddy and I know from personal experience the level of quality from Jeep/dodge/ram/Chrysler. Also, typically most companies only want to buy Jeep when looking at FCA because it’s the real m…

"Typically most companies only want Jeep when looking at FCA because it’s the real money maker from what I hear" The Ram trucks are 3rd behind Ford and Chevy in sales, but only very slightly behind Chevy. And way ahead of number 4, Toyota trucks. I imagine that's attractive also.

Jeep (34% in 2018) and Ram (16%) account now for more than half of the sales of the group. In units, because in dollars it will be more and in earnings probably much more (but I don’t think the company discloses that info).

Re: How Fiat Chrysler’s Proposed Merger With Renault Crashed

#13

Post by petre » Sat, Jun 08, 2019, 9:29 PM UTC

Shivetya wrote: post #11

nimbius wrote: post #7

Disclosure: im an automotive mechanic for a chain of midwest shops. Chrysler has been the "frat boy on probation" for nearly 40 years now. Renault was wise to reconsider what they would get. wind back the clock to Daimler Chrysler and youll see there was nothing but mistrust from the start. German execs wanted an inroad into an american market segment that their luxury brands couldnt target at the time, and Chrysler…

Fiat got Chrysler to get Ram and Jeep. Ram took off very well and recently had landed many accolades for their trucks. Jeep turned around nicely but has seen a slide for the last few quarters but has a solid foundation of vehicles to include their first PHEV and pickup. Chrysler/Dodge are mostly sustained by their minivans. Chrysler/Dodge was the first of the American brands to ditch sedans. Ford and GM followed. Cha…

These models won't sell well in former Warsaw Pact states. Most of them are in the EU now and fuel is quite expensive. People in those states buy mainly used German cars, mainly diesels, plus cheap domestic cars (Dacia and Skoda) and French cars (Renault and PSA brands). They'd probably sell in North Africa and maybe the Arabic peninsula but that's debatable. The Emiratis are so well off that their police drives Lamborghinis, so I pretty much doubt they'll buy Dodge Chargers. China will just copy whatever model and produce a lookalike at 1/3 the price. They did it with the Range Rover Evoque and other cars.

Re: How Fiat Chrysler’s Proposed Merger With Renault Crashed

#14

Post by chrisseaton » Sat, Jun 08, 2019, 9:29 PM UTC

sl1ck731 wrote: post #9

nobrains wrote: post #8

Renaults are the only cars sold in the middle east whose entire range have steering mounted speed limiters. I love that feature.

When you say speed limiter are you referring to cruise control? Or an actual speed limiter that won't let you go over X kph with your foot on the pedal? If the latter, it seems like a strange feature to have/want.

> If the latter, it seems like a strange feature to have/want.

Seems dangerous - to not be able to accelerate out of a collision in an emergency if that is the safest thing to do.

Re: How Fiat Chrysler’s Proposed Merger With Renault Crashed

#15

Post by hocuspocus » Sat, Jun 08, 2019, 9:31 PM UTC

chrisseaton wrote: post #14

sl1ck731 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you say speed limiter are you referring to cruise control? Or an actual speed limiter that won't let you go over X kph with your foot on the pedal? If the latter, it seems like a strange feature to have/want.

> If the latter, it seems like a strange feature to have/want. Seems dangerous - to not be able to accelerate out of a collision in an emergency if that is the safest thing to do.

Same as cruise control, the limiter disengages when you floor the accelerator pedal.

Re: How Fiat Chrysler’s Proposed Merger With Renault Crashed

#16

Post by petre » Sat, Jun 08, 2019, 9:42 PM UTC

tyingq wrote: post #4

Are the current Renault vehicles competitive? From the US, so I don't have much insight into the brand outside of Nissan.

Yes, they are cheap. Not particulary reliable but okay, kind of like most French cars. They'll get you from point A to point B. They've got EVs. If you want a better trim you buy Nissan, which is more and more like an overpriced Renault. Not what they used to be. I remember the old Patrol GRs, built like a tank.

Re: How Fiat Chrysler’s Proposed Merger With Renault Crashed

#17

Post by sl1ck731 » Sat, Jun 08, 2019, 9:56 PM UTC

seszett wrote: post #10

sl1ck731 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you say speed limiter are you referring to cruise control? Or an actual speed limiter that won't let you go over X kph with your foot on the pedal? If the latter, it seems like a strange feature to have/want.

Cars usually have both at the same time. I rarely use it but I can see the appeal of a speed limiter for people who don't pay much attention to their speed but just want to be sure they don't get flashed by a speed cam.

Is this outside of NA? I've never seen this feature in the US.

Re: How Fiat Chrysler’s Proposed Merger With Renault Crashed

#18

Post by benj111 » Sat, Jun 08, 2019, 10:01 PM UTC

chrisseaton wrote: post #14

sl1ck731 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you say speed limiter are you referring to cruise control? Or an actual speed limiter that won't let you go over X kph with your foot on the pedal? If the latter, it seems like a strange feature to have/want.

> If the latter, it seems like a strange feature to have/want. Seems dangerous - to not be able to accelerate out of a collision in an emergency if that is the safest thing to do.

I'm dubious that accelerating out of danger is the 'best' option in any but the most contrived of circumstances.

Re: How Fiat Chrysler’s Proposed Merger With Renault Crashed

#19

Post by jdhn » Sat, Jun 08, 2019, 10:01 PM UTC

nimbius wrote: post #7

Disclosure: im an automotive mechanic for a chain of midwest shops. Chrysler has been the "frat boy on probation" for nearly 40 years now. Renault was wise to reconsider what they would get. wind back the clock to Daimler Chrysler and youll see there was nothing but mistrust from the start. German execs wanted an inroad into an american market segment that their luxury brands couldnt target at the time, and Chrysler…

>things like the Charger RT and Hellcat challenger are loss-leaders

How is FCA not making a profit off of them, especially the Hellcat? The platform that they ride on has to be paid off by now due to its age, and the Hellcat sells at a premium compared to the other products in the FCA lineup, with the exception of high trim Ram 1500/2500/3500's.

Re: How Fiat Chrysler’s Proposed Merger With Renault Crashed

#20

Post by chrisseaton » Sat, Jun 08, 2019, 10:06 PM UTC

benj111 wrote: post #18

chrisseaton wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If the latter, it seems like a strange feature to have/want. Seems dangerous - to not be able to accelerate out of a collision in an emergency if that is the safest thing to do.

I'm dubious that accelerating out of danger is the 'best' option in any but the most contrived of circumstances.

I said 'safest' - I don't know who you're quoting with 'best'.

But if your options are hard breaking or hard accelerating, it's easy to see when hard acceleration is better - when someone is immediately behind you and the road ahead is clear, and then for example someone swerving into your lane from the side