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Huawei Accused of Technology Theft

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Re: Huawei Accused of Technology Theft

#121

Post by paulryanrogers »

rexarex wrote: post #70

Cisco was a rip off of The Stanford Blue Box. AFAIK the deans of the biz school and CS school founded Cisco with tech created by Stanford and were almost sued. Stanford decided that it wasn’t worth the potential bad press to be sueing faculty.

"Someone else does it too" isn't a very strong argument.

We may be approaching a world where all critical infrastructure must be open hardware and software, or face a Balkenizd patchwork of suppliers local to each market.

(Not a Cisco or Huawei fan myself.)

Re: Huawei Accused of Technology Theft

#122

Post by kyriakos »

m463 wrote: post #38
walrus01 wrote: post #21

It's well known in the telecom/internet infrastructure business that Huawei: a) bugged the hell out of Nortel's ottawa area offices, both physically, by rootkit, and by getting their own people hired to physically smuggle out documents and design data b) Copied the entire DWDM / optical transport product line c) Released a nearly identical product a few years later, and sold it at a ridiculously low price, effectivel…

Interesting - in silicon valley Huawei has a building just a short distance from both Intel and Nvidia's main headquarters.

This could just mean they want to reinforce their brand by being next to the big guys. Doesn't mean they are spying even if that is a possibility.

Re: Huawei Accused of Technology Theft

#123

Post by ineedasername »

scarejunba wrote: post #68
elorant wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try telling that to Cisco

How is that a valid defence? Try telling the MPAA/RIAA that your use of The Pirate Bay isn't stealing.

Without even getting into the "is personal piracy wrong" issue, it's pretty easy to draw a line between an individual downloading songs from pirate bay and a major corporation pirating IP wholesale and then making a business out of reselling the derivative products.

Re: Huawei Accused of Technology Theft

#124

Post by chlee »

fc373745 wrote: post #103

Seems like a lot of accusations against the Chinese and their tech is being force fed down our throats lately. Not surprising, since we are currently within a trade war and any opportunity to drive out Chinese competition would be taken - especially since Huawei would have been a huge competitor in the smartphone market (I heard their camera quality is currently the best). I"m skeptical, as some of these accusations…

Well, according to the US Department of Justice, China is behind 90% of espionage and industrial theft cases that it has handled over the past 7 years [1]

To use a less biased source [2], SCMP (which is a HK newspaper now owned by Jack Ma, founder of Alibaba) mentioned:

John Demers, assistant attorney general in the Justice Department’s national security division, said that by stealing trade secrets through computer intrusions and the co-opting of company insiders, China had “turned the tradecraft of its intelligence services against American companies”.

Between 2011 and 2018, Demers said, more than 90 per cent of his department’s cases alleging “economic espionage on behalf of a state” involved China. Among such cases are the recent prosecutions of Chinese national Xu Yanjun, suspected of trying to steal trade secrets from US and European aerospace companies, and 10 other Chinese intelligence agents suspected of similar offences.

“The playbook is simple,” Demers said. “Rob, replicate and replace.”

[1] https://www.newsweek.com/china-involved-90-percent-economic-...

[2] https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy/article/2177727/fb...

Re: Huawei Accused of Technology Theft

#125

Post by stordoff »

fc373745 wrote: post #103

Seems like a lot of accusations against the Chinese and their tech is being force fed down our throats lately. Not surprising, since we are currently within a trade war and any opportunity to drive out Chinese competition would be taken - especially since Huawei would have been a huge competitor in the smartphone market (I heard their camera quality is currently the best). I"m skeptical, as some of these accusations…

To be honest, it's getting to the point where even if most of the accusations are true (and I'm quite willing to believe they are), they don't _feel_ true. When (seemingly) everytime you open Hacker News there is a new accusation against Huawei, it starts to not feel plausible.

Re: Huawei Accused of Technology Theft

#126

Post by codedokode »

choonway wrote: post #108
codedokode wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it really limited to chinese culture? US had Echelon to spy on other countries' communications, Israel had destroyed Iranian program to have atomic energy. Europeans have stolen the secret of manufacturing a porcelain. West and Russia have stolen German secrets of making rockets after the war. Nobody wants to play fair. And if you look at mobile game market, there everyone is stealing ideas from each other.

Is cheating/stealing something you want to perpetuate (cuz revenge or something), or something you want to call out?

I just wanted to note that it is not limited to Chinese culture as the comment above states. And I have remembered another example: Apple has copied Xerox's Alto GUI for its own computer. Here is a quote from Jobs from the article [1]:

> I was so blinded by the first thing they showed me, which was the graphical user interface. I thought it was the best thing I’d ever seen in my life.

So Jobs just copied the idea of GUI just because he "liked" it instead of developing his own computer-human interface. Is not it similar to what Huawei does: taking the ideas they "like" and innovating on top of that.

[1] https://www.mac-history.net/computer-history/2012-03-22/appl...

Re: Huawei Accused of Technology Theft

#127

Post by whitexn--g28h »

scoot_718 wrote: post #96
dnomad wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a bunch of pure bullshit. 1. None of those links provide anything like evidence or support of your accusations. 2. It's absolutely remarkable that Huawei had somehow committed all these crimes and yet nobody has ever managed to prove anything significant in a court of law. All we get are wild accusations and law suits that get thrown out. Here's the really remarkable aspect here: the US government doesn't need t…

Nice comment history.

Definitely a good read, reminds on when I was in Hong Kong and my guide would always say June 4 Incident around tourists from the PRC. The mainlanders would always immediately start defending the government.

Re: Huawei Accused of Technology Theft

#128

Post by riffraff »

pupdogg wrote: post #114
ghostpepper wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not doubting you but it would be great to link to one/several of those stories. A quick google search turns up a CBC article from 2012 where a former Nortel exec alleges Huawei hacking, and also, amusingly, this HN story.

It's fair to say that, in 2019, Huawei scale money can buy you online reputation...including removal of any documented instances that might hurt its image. After all, Google was their partner for a good amount of time.

MSFT was a giant but was not able to hide the Halloween documents, I don't see why Huawei would succeed in that.

Re: Huawei Accused of Technology Theft

#129

Post by riffraff »

codedokode wrote: post #72
walrus01 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You would have to be familiar with the technical details of DWDM platform system architecture, photonics, etc in order to grok a full explanation. The Huawei product released was identical . It was identical down to the ASICs on the individual linecards and other things that would have been impossible to reverse engineer in a "Clean room" environment. I know I'm not providing a citation here, but among the community…

If it was patented, why didn't the company sue Huawei and ban import of the product?

Why is this downvoted? Industrial spying is punished in the west.

Re: Huawei Accused of Technology Theft

#130

Post by dang »

scoot_718 wrote: post #96
dnomad wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a bunch of pure bullshit. 1. None of those links provide anything like evidence or support of your accusations. 2. It's absolutely remarkable that Huawei had somehow committed all these crimes and yet nobody has ever managed to prove anything significant in a court of law. All we get are wild accusations and law suits that get thrown out. Here's the really remarkable aspect here: the US government doesn't need t…

Nice comment history.

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