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Google Walkout Organizer Claire Stapleton Resigns

theguardian.com

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Re: Google Walkout Organizer Claire Stapleton Resigns

#41

Post by smacktoward »

gubbrora wrote: post #19
signal11 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> On Day One, the entire workforce of every company becomes "contractors". This is going to be increasingly difficult in Europe as they focus on “disguised employees” or “perm-tractors”. The UK has already implemented this rule (IR35) for the public sector, with the private sector set to follow suit in 2020. And the EU are beginning to consider how to clamp down on the practice.

It seems a lot of Americans think well the rich will just find loopholes let's just give up. I don't get it.

The rich here spend an awful lot of money encouraging us to think that way.

Re: Google Walkout Organizer Claire Stapleton Resigns

#42

Post by billy_beef »

Ericson2314 wrote: post #35
bongobongo wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Labor always has leverage. The question is whether or not it is organized enough to use it.

Atomation does fundamentally change this, even if it's only by a little so far.

Perhaps, but someone still has to build and maintain the automation, no?

Re: Google Walkout Organizer Claire Stapleton Resigns

#43

Post by nerpderp82 »

Aunche wrote: post #34
heer4it wrote: post #3

These companies are so huge and such an integral part of society that they need to be made more accountable to the public, and forcing them to be more accountable to their workers is part of that. I think the recent proposal to require employee representation on the board of directors of $1B+ companies is a good start.

Sundar Pichai is an employee and board member. He's not a "regular" employee, but I don't think a regular employee gets enough perspective to make effective decisions across the company. They would have to take their board position more seriously than their full time job, which would make them not a regular employee anymore.

I am not sure what you did there, an Ouroboros argument about a continual and inseparable membrane between the owners and the workers?

Is it _really_ not possible to have employee representation? I find that hard to believe.

Re: Google Walkout Organizer Claire Stapleton Resigns

#44

Post by chrshawkes »

paul7986 wrote: post #39
0815test wrote: post #4

She walked out for good. Gotta admire her integrity! Also this from her post just hits the nail on the head: > [Google leadership] are talking to everyone who thought my story sounded familiar, anyone who’s been Through It in some form: pushed out or punished for speaking up, gaslit, discriminated against, isolated, harassed. People are telling each other their stories. Refusing to acknowledge our humanity and engage…

Their arrogance and ignorance is already affecting them as many people I know no longer use Google search. Also check out DuckDuckGo on Alexa ... its now the 100th most popular site in the US and continues to increase its reach; 167 globally. Love to get away fully from Google myself! They are horrible and personally their arrogance and ignorance is catching up to them!

The only problem is Duck Duck Go and every other search engine sucks ass compared to Google. Even DDG has turned to Bing (which sucks) for their searches.

Re: Google Walkout Organizer Claire Stapleton Resigns

#45

Post by mtgx »

empath75 wrote: post #40
Aunche wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sundar Pichai is an employee and board member. He's not a "regular" employee, but I don't think a regular employee gets enough perspective to make effective decisions across the company. They would have to take their board position more seriously than their full time job, which would make them not a regular employee anymore.

The point of having employee representation in the board isn’t putting a janitor in the board room, it’s putting someone on the board who represents the interests of employees first. She doesn’t have to be a regular employee. I think it’s the kind of idea that sounds good on paper, but it’s trivially easy to corrupt someone once they’re in that sort of position of power.

Make it so the representative is paid directly by the workers via a mandatory fee (whatever sum is necessary to pay their salary), and then make it illegal for the company to pay or reward that board member in any way. If the latter is breached, put the company's CEO in jail. No weaseling out with "fines" or "settlements" -- straight to jail.

Maybe my version is slightly too extreme, but I think we can be creative enough to find a good solution for this. It doesn't sound impossible to me at all. Other countries already have similar laws in place.

Re: Google Walkout Organizer Claire Stapleton Resigns

#46

Post by munificent »

gubbrora wrote: post #19
signal11 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> On Day One, the entire workforce of every company becomes "contractors". This is going to be increasingly difficult in Europe as they focus on “disguised employees” or “perm-tractors”. The UK has already implemented this rule (IR35) for the public sector, with the private sector set to follow suit in 2020. And the EU are beginning to consider how to clamp down on the practice.

It seems a lot of Americans think well the rich will just find loopholes let's just give up. I don't get it.

Cynicism is one of the most effective tools of the powerful.

Re: Google Walkout Organizer Claire Stapleton Resigns

#47

Post by gamblor956 »

0815test wrote: post #4

She walked out for good. Gotta admire her integrity! Also this from her post just hits the nail on the head: > [Google leadership] are talking to everyone who thought my story sounded familiar, anyone who’s been Through It in some form: pushed out or punished for speaking up, gaslit, discriminated against, isolated, harassed. People are telling each other their stories. Refusing to acknowledge our humanity and engage…

I forwarded this story to my HR department with the suggestion that we find a way to expedite our company's transition away from GSuite.

I've been using GSuite (and Gmail) since they launched, so when even a long-term user thinks Google isn't worth it anymore--to the point of actively evangelizing against the use of Google services--Google's got serious issues.

If they can't resolve this soon, they'll be the new IBM. IBM was able to survive because nobody got fired for using IBM. But Google doesn't make anything integral to business: search is a pale shadow of what it used to be; GSuite is still just a dumbed-down 365 wannabe, and none of Google's other products are kept around long enough even if successful to justify any sort of personal or business investment in them.

Re: Google Walkout Organizer Claire Stapleton Resigns

#48

Post by bobthepanda »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #28
tathougies wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not familiar with Google's employee stock plan, but since -- I presume -- most employees are shareholders, don't they already have a say at the board level?

An important distinction is that companies like Google and Facebook have dual class structures for shares: The founders still hold all the power in any shareholder vote. Case in point, 68% of Facebook shareholders voted to remove Mark Zuckerberg, but since Zuckerberg's shares are a lot more powerful, it's completely irrelevant: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/why-68-percent-of-facebook-in...

Dual class shares seem like a perversion of what the stock market and stocks were initially intended to do. If you can’t vote on important decisions made by the company, do you actually own the company, or is a stock just a fancy piece of paper to gamble on? (I call it gambling because any return is based purely on stock price; there are no dividends paid out for FB and GOOG).

Re: Google Walkout Organizer Claire Stapleton Resigns

#49

Post by ohaideredevs »

billy_beef wrote: post #30
dudus wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

5 years? I think it already has mostly been forgotten

What are you talking about? It comes out like often in my world?

What is "your world" - no one here has even heard of it, or cares. If you take the time to think about it - swapping one incredibly high-paid job for another does not make you a martyr.

Re: Google Walkout Organizer Claire Stapleton Resigns

#50

Post by acdha »

goobynight wrote: post #27
StevePerkins wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On Day One, the entire workforce of every company becomes "contractors". Labor does not have the leverage in most industries as it does in large tech. Even in tech it is cyclical. Younger readers here, who missed out on the 2001 and 2008 crashes, are going to have an eye-opening experience when the next recession gets here.

Not sure it will be the same. 2008 was not just a regular business cycle recession. That was a huge event that I agree would be devastating. Tech work is much more diversified now, right? Did capital one, starbucks, nordstrom, Walmart, Target, car makers and just about everyone have a sizable SWE team in 2001? They do now and a lot of those are probably in profit center roles. That sets aside that big tech really got…

> Did capital one, starbucks, nordstrom, Walmart, Target, car makers and just about everyone have a sizable SWE team in 2001?

Yes - and 1991 for that matter. They weren’t building mobile apps and the trend has become stronger but almost every large organization has been building software for decades.

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