Google Walkout Organizer Claire Stapleton Resigns • Hacker News Board

Re: Google Walkout Organizer Claire Stapleton Resigns

#31

Post by r00fus » Fri, Jun 07, 2019, 4:23 PM UTC

StevePerkins wrote: post #8

heer4it wrote: post #3

These companies are so huge and such an integral part of society that they need to be made more accountable to the public, and forcing them to be more accountable to their workers is part of that. I think the recent proposal to require employee representation on the board of directors of $1B+ companies is a good start.

On Day One, the entire workforce of every company becomes "contractors". Labor does not have the leverage in most industries as it does in large tech. Even in tech it is cyclical. Younger readers here, who missed out on the 2001 and 2008 crashes, are going to have an eye-opening experience when the next recession gets here.

This would have major consequences, and some not good possible outcomes for the companies.

The concept of a salaried workforce is embedded in our society at a fairly deep level, and upending that to prevent workforce representation might not be that easy.

Re: Google Walkout Organizer Claire Stapleton Resigns

#32

Post by pja » Fri, Jun 07, 2019, 4:26 PM UTC

rahimnathwani wrote: post #23

signal11 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> On Day One, the entire workforce of every company becomes "contractors". This is going to be increasingly difficult in Europe as they focus on “disguised employees” or “perm-tractors”. The UK has already implemented this rule (IR35) for the public sector, with the private sector set to follow suit in 2020. And the EU are beginning to consider how to clamp down on the practice.

Nitpick: IR35 was announced in 1999, and came into force in 2000.

There has been a recent tightening of the interpretation of IR35 by HMRC which has been applied to the public sector first. I imagine it’s to this that the comment you’re replying to is referring.

(Essentially as I understand things they’re no longer allowing contractors to make the decision as to whether they’re inside IR35 or not, but making the companies paying them make that decision & bear the liability for getting it wrong.)

Re: Google Walkout Organizer Claire Stapleton Resigns

#33

Post by billy_beef » Fri, Jun 07, 2019, 4:27 PM UTC

5440 wrote: post #24

heer4it wrote: post #3

These companies are so huge and such an integral part of society that they need to be made more accountable to the public, and forcing them to be more accountable to their workers is part of that. I think the recent proposal to require employee representation on the board of directors of $1B+ companies is a good start.

Who would would you suggest represent the employees exactly. The majority? That doesn't always work out the way you would like.

Can you cite a source on this or explain your reasoning here, I'm a little unclear on the implication

Re: Google Walkout Organizer Claire Stapleton Resigns

#34

Post by Aunche » Fri, Jun 07, 2019, 4:27 PM UTC

heer4it wrote: post #3

These companies are so huge and such an integral part of society that they need to be made more accountable to the public, and forcing them to be more accountable to their workers is part of that. I think the recent proposal to require employee representation on the board of directors of $1B+ companies is a good start.

Sundar Pichai is an employee and board member. He's not a "regular" employee, but I don't think a regular employee gets enough perspective to make effective decisions across the company. They would have to take their board position more seriously than their full time job, which would make them not a regular employee anymore.

Re: Google Walkout Organizer Claire Stapleton Resigns

#35

Post by Ericson2314 » Fri, Jun 07, 2019, 4:27 PM UTC

bongobongo wrote: post #21

StevePerkins wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On Day One, the entire workforce of every company becomes "contractors". Labor does not have the leverage in most industries as it does in large tech. Even in tech it is cyclical. Younger readers here, who missed out on the 2001 and 2008 crashes, are going to have an eye-opening experience when the next recession gets here.

Labor always has leverage. The question is whether or not it is organized enough to use it.

Atomation does fundamentally change this, even if it's only by a little so far.

Re: Google Walkout Organizer Claire Stapleton Resigns

#36

Post by zachberger » Fri, Jun 07, 2019, 4:27 PM UTC

tathougies wrote: post #25

heer4it wrote: post #3

These companies are so huge and such an integral part of society that they need to be made more accountable to the public, and forcing them to be more accountable to their workers is part of that. I think the recent proposal to require employee representation on the board of directors of $1B+ companies is a good start.

I'm not familiar with Google's employee stock plan, but since -- I presume -- most employees are shareholders, don't they already have a say at the board level?

I'm a Google employee. The stock I receive as a part of my compensation is GOOG which is non-voting. GOOGL is voting stock. There are some details here: https://investorplace.com/2019/02/goog-google-stock-split/

Re: Google Walkout Organizer Claire Stapleton Resigns

#37

Post by erinnh » Fri, Jun 07, 2019, 4:29 PM UTC

5440 wrote: post #24

heer4it wrote: post #3

These companies are so huge and such an integral part of society that they need to be made more accountable to the public, and forcing them to be more accountable to their workers is part of that. I think the recent proposal to require employee representation on the board of directors of $1B+ companies is a good start.

Who would would you suggest represent the employees exactly. The majority? That doesn't always work out the way you would like.

Work councils are working really well in Germany.

Elect Employees to be in that council and the council has the right to make proposals/be heard by the management, often also have one or two people on the board of directors. They also need to be consulted about some areas that affect the employees (like work hours etc)

Re: Google Walkout Organizer Claire Stapleton Resigns

#38

Post by signal11 » Fri, Jun 07, 2019, 4:29 PM UTC

rahimnathwani wrote: post #23

signal11 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> On Day One, the entire workforce of every company becomes "contractors". This is going to be increasingly difficult in Europe as they focus on “disguised employees” or “perm-tractors”. The UK has already implemented this rule (IR35) for the public sector, with the private sector set to follow suit in 2020. And the EU are beginning to consider how to clamp down on the practice.

Nitpick: IR35 was announced in 1999, and came into force in 2000.

I don’t believe the new rules around perma-contracting were ever applied to the private sector. Even the public sector guidance is dated 2017[1].

[1] https://www.gov.uk/guidance/off-payroll-working-in-the-publi...

Re: Google Walkout Organizer Claire Stapleton Resigns

#39

Post by paul7986 » Fri, Jun 07, 2019, 4:30 PM UTC

0815test wrote: post #4

She walked out for good. Gotta admire her integrity! Also this from her post just hits the nail on the head: > [Google leadership] are talking to everyone who thought my story sounded familiar, anyone who’s been Through It in some form: pushed out or punished for speaking up, gaslit, discriminated against, isolated, harassed. People are telling each other their stories. Refusing to acknowledge our humanity and engage…

Their arrogance and ignorance is already affecting them as many people I know no longer use Google search.

Also check out DuckDuckGo on Alexa ... its now the 100th most popular site in the US and continues to increase its reach; 167 globally.

Love to get away fully from Google myself! They are horrible and personally their arrogance and ignorance is catching up to them!

Re: Google Walkout Organizer Claire Stapleton Resigns

#40

Post by empath75 » Fri, Jun 07, 2019, 4:31 PM UTC

Aunche wrote: post #34

heer4it wrote: post #3

These companies are so huge and such an integral part of society that they need to be made more accountable to the public, and forcing them to be more accountable to their workers is part of that. I think the recent proposal to require employee representation on the board of directors of $1B+ companies is a good start.

Sundar Pichai is an employee and board member. He's not a "regular" employee, but I don't think a regular employee gets enough perspective to make effective decisions across the company. They would have to take their board position more seriously than their full time job, which would make them not a regular employee anymore.

The point of having employee representation in the board isn’t putting a janitor in the board room, it’s putting someone on the board who represents the interests of employees first. She doesn’t have to be a regular employee.

I think it’s the kind of idea that sounds good on paper, but it’s trivially easy to corrupt someone once they’re in that sort of position of power.