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The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

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Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#431
post #378

My own concerns are different. I'm in my 50s now, happily married for over 25 years, with a terrific social life. I'm not at all lonely or isolated. It's my children that I worry about. They're boy/girl twins, now 25. My daughter is in the process of breaking up with the boyfriend she's lived with for the past two years, and moving back home to re-settle her life. She has a career, and wants to get married and start…

Your daughter is fine but unless your son is disabled / has other potential issues (like autism, severe depression) you need to get him on the right track. No 25 year old should be able to get away with the excuse of being unable to "adult well enough to live on his own". Your son of course has responsibility but that's really your problem to fix if he won't

He's pretty seriously autistic.

One thing having twins did for me was push me way over to the nature side of nature vs nurture. They're so different, and always have been. And I don't expect to have more control over their lives than my parents had over mine at that age.

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#432

Dude, you’re their parents! Take some responsibility!

Yes, I'd like to read a "I must have messed up somewhere". That would be a good starting point to "what can I do about it".

that's a bad attitude to take and leads to a lot of unnecessary guilt about something you have little control over. parents cannot do much to shape the personality and ability of their children in adulthood.

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> yet they are expected to still marry women who have been with an unknown number of partners Why does this matter?

For women, divorce risk spikes sharply after the first sexual partner: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1741-3737.... Excerpt: >The results presented in this article replicate findings from previous research: Women who cohabit prior to marriage or who have premarital sex have an increased likelihood of marital disruption. Considering the joint effects of premarital cohabitation and premarital sex, as…

OK, so? It's easy to find abstracts of papers that support just about any conclusion, but you still need to provide a link if you're making an argument (and it isn't obvious if that's what you're doing.) Furthermore, it's a fallacy that divorces are inherently a bad thing. If you think you should only date women who have never been with any other men out of insecurity that they'll leave you otherwise then you're setting your relationship up for failure from the beginning.

Good grief.

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just a piece of advice: try to take a step back and listen more carefully to the complaints you're hearing. When people talk about dismantling the patriarchy, or about racial privilege, they are not actually talking about any one particular person. You are fully able to be white, male, privileged, and still be an ally to those who do not benefit as much from the power structures in our society. Instead of feeling per…

How is this different than someone saying "I think feminists are trash, and feminists who disagree with me should take time to understand what I mean." In other words, do you understand why what you are saying is victim blaming?

Because feminists are the victim fighting for equal rights.

In racism, white people are not the victim, they are the creators of racism and are the people still allowing racism to exist. They are the attacker.

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#435

I’ve been feeling a pretty intense sort of depression and loneliness for the last month or so. The feelings of “you’re a white male and you work in tech and you are wealthy you are a SATAN” is just becoming too much :(. I volunteer a tremendous amount in education, where I’m the only male I generally even see in my field, and I constantly have to listen to my coworkers gleefully talk about how excited they are at how…

Who calls you a devil? Can you name any explicit times when people have mentioned or acted in a way regarding your sexuality/gender/profession?

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#436

Better to be lonely sometimes than to be divorced ever IMO.

My first wife might agree with you, me? Not so much. I'm not the same person I was 10 years ago, so why would I expect her to be the same women I fell in love with 10 years ago? It's not a crime to change, grow, evolve; so why punish the person you are with?

See... But I agree with you.

Which is why I'm voting to not get married ever. So far.

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#437
post #378

My own concerns are different. I'm in my 50s now, happily married for over 25 years, with a terrific social life. I'm not at all lonely or isolated. It's my children that I worry about. They're boy/girl twins, now 25. My daughter is in the process of breaking up with the boyfriend she's lived with for the past two years, and moving back home to re-settle her life. She has a career, and wants to get married and start…

Sounds to me like your son needs to learn a trade.

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#438
Great explanation on why we should simply treat loneliness like a symptom of being hungry. As you form healthier habits in general around socializing, the person becomes more whole and in doing so you grant yourself additional opportunities to meet people, engage in conversation, and increase the probability of friendships and relationships.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3Xv_g3g-mA

The other thought process I've been subscribing to lately is the idea that you have to actually become the kind of person that "can socialize" or that "can be friendly" before you suddenly find yourself in: a friendship, a relationship, a marriage, a solid social network. None of these things come over night and they certainly don't come easy for people who are stricken with the habit of isolation. Once you make decisions and form actual habits around trying to be friendly to other people:

- put yourself in a situation where you have the opportunity at all to socialize (a store, a coffeeshop, a restaurant, a club, a meetup). Socializing doesn't mean you have to be friends with the person, it seems to be about just being the kind of person who is even able at all to be friendly

- make an observation (the weather, the environment around you, the place you're at, something someone is wearing, a pin, a shoe, an outfit, a drink, a dog... whatever - just make any observation at all and comment on it)

- listen (observe how the other person make the same or differing observations; listen to any other observation other people make, internalize and actually listen - don't be thinking of the next thing to say after they are done talking. Listen so you can understand them in some way and what they are actually saying)

- ask questions (if you discovered something work asking, or maybe the observation involved a question like "where did you get those cool shoes?" "what do you recommend here?" "what is your favorite item?" "can you help explain something to me?"). It's great to ask questions that involve help because it invites the other person into a social situation where you can trust them to give you advice or knowledge. People try this with neighbors for instance, such as borrowing a tool or something like this.

- receive feedback, or give feedback based on the questions

- it is usually the case that questions lead to other questions, you can develop a conversation from here most of the time

- repeat observation, listen, ask questions, feedback, communicate something you enjoy/relevant to conversation

Once you've internalize a process for being friendly and you take action to actually make it a habit, you become the kind of person that can be friendly. It doesn't actually matter if you don't necessarily know whether you will want to be friends with a person, it's that you are showing yourself that you can be friendly. Most importantly, you are practicing and making it a habit.

Once it is a habit, it becomes natural. Being friendly turns into developing actual friendships and opening yourself up to the world to trying new experiences. Some of those experiences may lead to forming friendships and those friendships may end up being relationships.

It also seems to me that you must understand that social networks are precisely that. you don't know whether one person might invite you to something where you meet another person. The same is true the other way around, inviting a neighbor, or other people over creates the possibility that you might extend, reinforce or cause you to re-evaluate your social network. By allowing yourself the time to be uncomfortable with this sort of unpredictability you can avoid remaining stagnant.

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#439
post #378

My own concerns are different. I'm in my 50s now, happily married for over 25 years, with a terrific social life. I'm not at all lonely or isolated. It's my children that I worry about. They're boy/girl twins, now 25. My daughter is in the process of breaking up with the boyfriend she's lived with for the past two years, and moving back home to re-settle her life. She has a career, and wants to get married and start…

Is the boyfriend 25? It took me until 25 to start being open to the idea of kids. I'm 27 now and actually open to the idea. I had never spent time with kids really. Having a niece and nephew helped a lot because I realized kids, while a lot of work, can bring a lot of joy.

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#440

I would argue that the decline of the family is directly linked to feminism, or better stated, the liberation of women from the home and from conservative sexual values. The two forces behind that are birth control and women entering the work force. These two are magnified by online dating and social media. I am not saying at all that these are bad things, just that we have yet to see the true effects of feminism on…

In my experience & observation feminism and women working has nothing to do with the inability to sustain a rich family or romantic life. My grandmothers worked, my mom worked, the women I’ve dated have great careers.

It is absolutely possible to have a career and be a phenomenal wife and mother with a happy family. If a person’s priority is family, it may limit career opportunities but that is true of both men’s and women’s careers (for example rejecting a promotion that requires a geographic move to keep kids in the same school or live near relatives will impact both partners).

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