The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness • Hacker News Board

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#101

Post by SoylentOrange » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 6:21 PM UTC

nugget wrote: post #42

codingslave wrote: post #7

I would argue that the decline of the family is directly linked to feminism, or better stated, the liberation of women from the home and from conservative sexual values. The two forces behind that are birth control and women entering the work force. These two are magnified by online dating and social media. I am not saying at all that these are bad things, just that we have yet to see the true effects of feminism on…

At the risk of wading into deeply controversal territory, I'll add some personal observations. One of the harsh realities I have seen is that it's very difficult for women to "have it all" meaning a fulfilling personal, family, and professional life, especially in the most competitive fields. Yet for many years this idea has persisted in a mythical sense as broadly achievable. I am now in my late 30s. I've watched my…

I have a serious question for you, curious on your answer.

Can men “have it all”? Is “having it all” different for men than women?

My experience is that men are able to “have it all” often at the cost of their spouse making sacrifices to stay at home, with the implicit idea that this is the way things are meant to be.

If both people in a relationship try to “have it all”, some sacrifices do have to be made (speaking from experience), but I am not sad about these choices since trade offs are an inevitable part of life :)

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#102

Post by dsfyu404ed » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 6:21 PM UTC

nugget wrote: post #42

codingslave wrote: post #7

I would argue that the decline of the family is directly linked to feminism, or better stated, the liberation of women from the home and from conservative sexual values. The two forces behind that are birth control and women entering the work force. These two are magnified by online dating and social media. I am not saying at all that these are bad things, just that we have yet to see the true effects of feminism on…

At the risk of wading into deeply controversal territory, I'll add some personal observations. One of the harsh realities I have seen is that it's very difficult for women to "have it all" meaning a fulfilling personal, family, and professional life, especially in the most competitive fields. Yet for many years this idea has persisted in a mythical sense as broadly achievable. I am now in my late 30s. I've watched my…

>At the risk of wading into deeply controversal territory, I'll add some personal observations. One of the harsh realities I have seen is that it's very difficult for women to "have it all" meaning a fulfilling personal, family, and professional life, especially in the most competitive fields.

This is perfectly possible. Imagine your stereotypical 1950s head of household. Fulfilling job, family is provided for, hangs out with friends on the weekend, etc. Now imagine them being female.

The fact of the matter is that this life doesn't exist for just about anyone anymore. It just never existed at all for women because back when it was possible for large numbers of people to do this they weren't part of the well paid workforce. (It didn't exist for non-whites for similar reasons but I digress)

Part of the problem is that our definition of "having it all" comes from times when circumstances were different. Now, I don't think just giving up and saying we'll never have it that good again and people have to choose between family, work and friends is a good solution but it sure seems more tractable in the short term than recreating that level of prosperity.

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#103

Post by bfrydl » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 6:21 PM UTC

malvosenior wrote: post #19

I look at so many of my single friends who are achingly lonely (late 30s to early 40s) and they all have a particular trait in common: they obsess about the possibilities the future may hold yet don’t acknowledge the hard work it would take to get there. There’s also a sort of collective delusion that if you wait around long enough, your dream partner will show up and that if a relationship takes any work at all that…

If these people are actually your friends, maybe you should show them more respect and stop assuming that the reason they are single is that they are less mature than you and chose to “chase hedonism” and “Instagram followers” over long term relationships. Despite what you might believe, it isn't easy for every person to find a long term partner, and not everyone wants to do it at the same point in their lives.

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#104

Post by mberning » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 6:22 PM UTC

chiefalchemist wrote: post #78

True. But it's great for the economy. When a family splits, that means 2x everything (e.g., sofa, dishes, TV, etc.) Same goes for the social "norm" that adults above 25 y/o (?) should live alone (if they're not married). The issue is, not only is this counter to long-established human (emotional) needs, but it is resource intensive as well. Put another way, we're bringing Mother Nature to her knees, and we're too dep…

Also with both parents working the labor pool has essentially doubled over the last 50-60 years. And people wonder why their parents could raise a family on one income but they cannot. Obviously there are many factors at play of which this phenomenon is just one.

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#105

Post by jonahrd » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 6:22 PM UTC

taway060619 wrote: post #90

I’ve been feeling a pretty intense sort of depression and loneliness for the last month or so. The feelings of “you’re a white male and you work in tech and you are wealthy you are a SATAN” is just becoming too much :(. I volunteer a tremendous amount in education, where I’m the only male I generally even see in my field, and I constantly have to listen to my coworkers gleefully talk about how excited they are at how…

Just a piece of advice: try to take a step back and listen more carefully to the complaints you're hearing. When people talk about dismantling the patriarchy, or about racial privilege, they are not actually talking about any one particular person. You are fully able to be white, male, privileged, and still be an ally to those who do not benefit as much from the power structures in our society.

Instead of feeling personally attacked when you hear these issues discussed, try to remember we are all on the same team, fighting to tackle problems that are bigger than just one individual.

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#106

Post by residentfoam » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 6:22 PM UTC

I have been lucky enough to be able to work and live in several countries around the world. One thing in common I noticed in all these places is that guys and girls don't have time and don't want to commit to a stable long relation. They invest pretty much themselves and their time in their career, traveling , parties, dogs, cats and bitcoins :) !

The mantra is to get rich and retire at 40 years old! Travel the world and have fun.

By the time they are somewhat satisfied with theirs status they have reached ~35 years old. At that point is more difficult to find a person and accept to share your life and habits with them.

They are so used to live their own lives that they have extremely hard time compromising any part of it.

I think the society has (wrongly) evolved towards an individualist model at the expenses of families.

I have noticed that people have been more and more intolerant to family flying with kids. It is hard to find kids friendly restaurants, hotels and resorts. People invite you to parties and kids are always not welcome. Not to mention also the additional cost associated with having a family.

But you know what ? I am so happy every day when I come home and my kids run towards me and we play and have fun. I and my wife coudln't be happier!

A piece of advice, stop running, take time off and think about your life beyond work and money. Traveling is fun but is way more fun and interesting when you can share it with some one you care about, like your family!

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#107

Post by drak0n1c » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 6:22 PM UTC

mial wrote: post #35

codingslave wrote: post #7

I would argue that the decline of the family is directly linked to feminism, or better stated, the liberation of women from the home and from conservative sexual values. The two forces behind that are birth control and women entering the work force. These two are magnified by online dating and social media. I am not saying at all that these are bad things, just that we have yet to see the true effects of feminism on…

It can also be linked to the rise of individualism, an essential part of the capitalist ideology.

There's an opposite political argument that the decline of the family, especially among the poor, was due to government benefits replacing the need to maintain social networks and interdependent families. In the 1800s and early 1900s, at the height of the industrial revolution and in the absence of any welfare state, poor Americans of every ethnicity had incredibly close-knit communities and extended families.

Life was harder, but you could lean on friends, family, and congregation. That's where the classic trope of rich people being lonely and surrounded by fake acquaintances while poor people have authentic community comes from. Maybe now that every level of society is relatively richer we're all that much lonelier.

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#108

Post by charliesharding » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 6:22 PM UTC

nvusuvu wrote: post #76

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/bc/content/shared/conten... Key take away: By divine design, fathers are to preside over their families in love and righteousness and are responsible to provide the necessities of life and protection for their families. Mothers are primarily responsible for the nurture of their children. In these sacred responsibilities, fathers and mothers are obligated to help one another as equa…

This view was a major building block of civilization for thousands of years. Weird how willingly people throw it away these days and then wonder why family is collapsing and mental illness is widespread and increasing

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#109

Post by camelNotation » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 6:23 PM UTC

stcredzero wrote: post #75

camelNotation wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Feminism has brought about a lot of changes, but I don't think we can lay this one at the feet of women trying to escape their compulsory reliance on unreliable, selfish, and inconsiderate men. Most people are alone because they don't prioritize the families they already have (parents, siblings, grandparents, cousins, etc). They graduate high school, attend college in another state, move to another city far away for…

I don't think we can lay this one at the feet of women trying to escape their compulsory reliance on unreliable, selfish, and inconsiderate men That's begging the question. Of course, one cannot, "blame the victims of villains," to paraphrase. The vast majority of people are just imperfect, normal people trying to get by. It's the aggregate actions of everyday people we should be looking at, not such outliers. Most p…

> It's like the "Thanksgiving arguments" are engineered precisely to create a rift between generations.

Isolation is a self-perpetuating thing. People hate going home for Thanksgiving and arguing with their relatives because they don't actually know their relatives (their own fault) and they don't belong at home anymore (also their own fault). They isolate themselves, then become indignant when the result is disconnection and conflict. It's absurd.

They're all brainwashed by capital into thinking there should be no negative consequences from following the path that maximizes career success. The idea that we can leave our homes, chase money, and live separate lives without destroying our relationships is the greatest enemy of the traditional family.

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#110

Post by jansho » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 6:24 PM UTC

WhompingWindows wrote: post #2

I felt loneliness acutely this week. I live alone, spend most evenings alone, and on top, work's coding and research has been slow for 2 weeks. Collaborators are at conferences and on vacation, so I had much less work and much less face-to-face contact than usual. Given that I code on my own, distribute analyses via email, and occasionally meet if people are around, I barely talked to people some days this week. Goin…

Hmm you might be readier to start that partner/ family phase than you think ;)