The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness • Hacker News Board

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#181

Post by Ascetik » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 6:40 PM UTC

xenospn wrote: post #129

residentfoam wrote: post #106

I have been lucky enough to be able to work and live in several countries around the world. One thing in common I noticed in all these places is that guys and girls don't have time and don't want to commit to a stable long relation. They invest pretty much themselves and their time in their career, traveling , parties, dogs, cats and bitcoins :) ! The mantra is to get rich and retire at 40 years old! Travel the world…

I think having kids is scientifically proven to make you unhappy and greatly increase your stress levels. It’s no wonder people just put off having kids until they can, or pass on having them altogether.

That's the biggest crock I've ever read on HN. Where did this "science" come from? A bunch of self-obsessed journalists I'm sure or maybe /r/childfree?

The people who are unhappy with kids are the people who are unhappy, depressed and bitter to begin with, lacking all empathy. You have to be a pretty self-absorbed individual to not love the innocence and charm of children.

Every person I know with a family loves their children to death and are very content and happy. Happiness consists in pursuing the ultimate unchanging good and increasing in virtue, nothing passing in this life can give you ultimate everlasting happiness. It is a philosophical, metaphysical and theological question, not a question of children, free-time or money. Children are a good thing, but they're not the ultimate object whereby one becomes happy.

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#182

Post by amvalo » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 6:40 PM UTC

jonahrd wrote: post #105

taway060619 wrote: post #90

I’ve been feeling a pretty intense sort of depression and loneliness for the last month or so. The feelings of “you’re a white male and you work in tech and you are wealthy you are a SATAN” is just becoming too much :(. I volunteer a tremendous amount in education, where I’m the only male I generally even see in my field, and I constantly have to listen to my coworkers gleefully talk about how excited they are at how…

Just a piece of advice: try to take a step back and listen more carefully to the complaints you're hearing. When people talk about dismantling the patriarchy, or about racial privilege, they are not actually talking about any one particular person. You are fully able to be white, male, privileged, and still be an ally to those who do not benefit as much from the power structures in our society. Instead of feeling per…

> I volunteer a tremendous amount in education, where I’m the only male I generally even see in my field, and I constantly have to listen to my coworkers gleefully talk about how excited they are at how few young boys show up to our events. I hear them blatantly express disdain when a couple do.

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#183

Post by kaitai » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 6:41 PM UTC

40acres wrote: post #60

My mother, dad, aunts, etc. all immigrated to the US in a period of about 5 years. They all settled in Brooklyn and a few even lived in the same apartment complex. Growing up the extended family was HUGE and someone new was over every Sunday. The next generation has become geographically spread out, I moved to the West Coast, a few of my cousins are in college out of state.. about half of this generation is likely to…

I find myself an anomaly and doubt my life choices sometimes for deciding to stay near family rather than chasing the career dream. But perhaps it's because I saw the cost, in my parents' generation, of immigration and long distances. I saw the benefits too...

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#184

Post by throwaway666666 » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 6:41 PM UTC

nugget wrote: post #42

codingslave wrote: post #7

I would argue that the decline of the family is directly linked to feminism, or better stated, the liberation of women from the home and from conservative sexual values. The two forces behind that are birth control and women entering the work force. These two are magnified by online dating and social media. I am not saying at all that these are bad things, just that we have yet to see the true effects of feminism on…

At the risk of wading into deeply controversal territory, I'll add some personal observations. One of the harsh realities I have seen is that it's very difficult for women to "have it all" meaning a fulfilling personal, family, and professional life, especially in the most competitive fields. Yet for many years this idea has persisted in a mythical sense as broadly achievable. I am now in my late 30s. I've watched my…

I completely agree with everything you said and would like to add, that I, as a man, hold no animosity toward women for the current situation.

I believe women have been screwed over just as badly as men from all this change that occurred. Young women are being told by older women they can have it all, and that is just plain wrong and hurts other women more than it helps them.

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#185

Post by malvosenior » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 6:41 PM UTC

dv_dt wrote: post #82

codingslave wrote: post #7

I would argue that the decline of the family is directly linked to feminism, or better stated, the liberation of women from the home and from conservative sexual values. The two forces behind that are birth control and women entering the work force. These two are magnified by online dating and social media. I am not saying at all that these are bad things, just that we have yet to see the true effects of feminism on…

It seems a stretch to blame feminism when economics has thinned most workers wages to the point that multi income households are a requirement to eke out a life.

Doubling the workforce would surely put downward pressure on wages due to supply and demand.

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#186

Post by CydeWeys » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 6:42 PM UTC

This is why I've never lived alone. I always either lived with family, lived with roommates, or recently, lived with my girlfriend. I'm not the most proactively social person and if I didn't live with people then I know I'd definitely get too lonely.

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#187

Post by germanlee » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 6:42 PM UTC

codingslave wrote: post #7

I would argue that the decline of the family is directly linked to feminism, or better stated, the liberation of women from the home and from conservative sexual values. The two forces behind that are birth control and women entering the work force. These two are magnified by online dating and social media. I am not saying at all that these are bad things, just that we have yet to see the true effects of feminism on…

Feminism is a symptom rather than the cause. The cause is the commoditization of humans into productivity and consumption units in a post-industrial environment where the state and corporations dominate. Corporations want to extract every bit of production and consumption out of individuals. A woman taking time off for pregnancy or deciding to become a stay-at-home mom is a drain on corporate productivity. And every state has to some degree tried to diminish the role of parents and family in order to sap every ounce of allegiance from an individual to the state. In totalitarian states, the head of the state becomes the father of the people and the state becomes its family. It's easier to control and manipulate individuals with weak family ties. And it's easier for entities to inject themselves into a controlling family role with individuals with weak family ties. It's why pimps and madams target runaways and make themselves into paternal or maternal figures.

Society and culture doesn't grow organically. They are created and manufactured by the people with wealth and power. For the time being, those with wealth and power have decided that the breakdown of the family is in their interest. But it could shift quickly if the people in charge want it to. An extreme example is china where they encouraged women to have lots of children in order to strengthen their country. And not too long after that, they had a change of heart and encouraged the complete opposite - one child policy. Now it seems like they are backing off of it after a few decades of one child policy.

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#188

Post by mgolawala » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 6:42 PM UTC

Actually one of the things my wife and I often discuss is how with our current society even what we consider our "nuclear family" is at most just a part time family.

For most of humanity a family group stayed together for the majority of each day. Children played with siblings, cousins and were usually within earshot of one of their parents or relatives. Certainly they would have found their way back when hungry. As they got older, they worked right beside their parents on the various chores and tasks.

In modern western society, the spouses are separated for the majority of their waking hours. (Even if one spouse chose to stay at home, the issue would still remain as the other spouse would have to go to work). The children spend either a significant or a major portion of their time in day care or school, also separated from their siblings. Then throw in the after school activities, projects and homework needed to create a modern "well rounded" child. (Don't even get me started on how un-affordable it is to have kids)

They do get to have a rushed breakfast together and hopefully a good dinner as well, but that is about it. A significant portion of the weekend is spent doing chores. Add in the American working culture of taking very few vacation days.

The decline of the family is because our culture has created an environment where we are working .. working constantly.. (either chasing a higher standard of living or running as fast as we can just to maintain our current standard of living (housing, education, healthcare), working so you can afford to have kids) and we work in an environment where we are disconnected from our family and friends. Often, if you are lucky, you make friends at work.. but almost always these aren't like the friends you made at high school, they aren't as meaningful and strong. Then People change jobs and you "stay in touch"... If you are lucky, you find the person you love at work, but work places romances are tricky as well.. sometimes (usually?) frowned upon.

We just have much less TIME to build those sorts of deep bonds. Visit a village or a small town in the developing world and observe how much more TIME people seem to have. How much more time they spend with each other.

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#189

Post by jniedrauer » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 6:42 PM UTC

residentfoam wrote: post #106

I have been lucky enough to be able to work and live in several countries around the world. One thing in common I noticed in all these places is that guys and girls don't have time and don't want to commit to a stable long relation. They invest pretty much themselves and their time in their career, traveling , parties, dogs, cats and bitcoins :) ! The mantra is to get rich and retire at 40 years old! Travel the world…

Bringing a child into the world to increase my own personal happiness, when nothing else I could do has such a direct and massive climate impact, is not something I can justify personally. Not to mention, my child would have to live to see the impacts of climate change.

There is coming a point (it has already passed, in my opinion), where we can no longer justify our purpose for existence as "creating more humans."

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#190

Post by bitexploder » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 6:43 PM UTC

WhompingWindows wrote: post #2

I felt loneliness acutely this week. I live alone, spend most evenings alone, and on top, work's coding and research has been slow for 2 weeks. Collaborators are at conferences and on vacation, so I had much less work and much less face-to-face contact than usual. Given that I code on my own, distribute analyses via email, and occasionally meet if people are around, I barely talked to people some days this week. Goin…

I recommend social hobbies. Mine are BJJ and Magic the Gathering. BJJ is great because it can be highly technical but you will meet people way outside of nerd circles. My kids do it and love it as well. It is a hard thing, too, so it keeps the ego in check. You have no choice but to be extremely, intimately close with other humans. The friends I am making are great. There are plenty of other hobbies, but start there.

Edit: (start by investigating social hobbies)