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“Apps intended for kids may not include third-party advertising or analytics”

developer.apple.com

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Re: “Apps intended for kids may not include third-party advertising or analytics”

#361

Post by rchaud »

cbsmith wrote: post #318
Fnoord wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then we can go back to the time where we simply paid for software with money instead of with privacy (such as tracking or PII) or time/focus (advertising). If there is one company of FAANG who's up for this task -and can beat Google at their game- it is Apple.

> Then we can go back to the time where we simply paid for software with money instead of with privacy (such as tracking or PII) or time/focus (advertising). A time when the digital divide was vast & software companies had no reason to heed the interests of those without disposable income... ;-)

The digital divide was vast because computers cost thousands of dollars and the Internet was something available only to corporations and universities. As a result, most of the paid software out there was targeted at rich users for professional work and priced accordingly.

BTW, how are ads incentivizing user-focused development? Look at the Top 100 apps in any apps store, and tell me they're not virtual clones of Clash of Clans, Plants v Zombies and Candy Crush. Every developer is heeding self-interest first.

Re: “Apps intended for kids may not include third-party advertising or analytics”

#362

Post by rchaud »

hexane360 wrote: post #241
Fnoord wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then we can go back to the time where we simply paid for software with money instead of with privacy (such as tracking or PII) or time/focus (advertising). If there is one company of FAANG who's up for this task -and can beat Google at their game- it is Apple.

Why do we expect one of the other 4 oligopolists to save us? Also, I have serious doubts that Apple can beat Google - and it certainly won't be "at their own game" (which is advertising).

Because people have fully inculcated the notion David cannot beat Goliath, so now we have to hope that the lesser evil "wins".

Re: “Apps intended for kids may not include third-party advertising or analytics”

#363

Post by frereubu »

mehh wrote: post #288
frereubu wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you considered a write-up of the issues with the CBeebies app? The BBC is the kind of organisation that might quite easily be shamed into removing those.

I think we are overloading what we mean by analytics and the purpose of it. Its not all about collecting profiles of users for advertising. It also about understanding the usage of your application. The BBC should absolutely by tracking the usage of their apps to ensure what the are producing has value, the just shouldn't allow that data to be used for third parties and their ad business. Note that BBC UK apps, and w…

It's not the fact that they're trying to understand how people use the app, it's that they're using services like Facebook and thereby syphoning more personal data towards corporate entities that have a genuinely terrible track record when it comes to using and abusing people's data.

Re: “Apps intended for kids may not include third-party advertising or analytics”

#364

Post by rchaud »

stevenwoo wrote: post #116
penagwin wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dislike tracking as much as anyone, but can you really fault them for using Google analytics? It's not like PBS choose to use them "to profit off the viewers".

I have a stupid question, why don't they use something like Matomo instead?

GA today is much more than just pageview analytics. With something like Google Tag Manager, you can have non-technical staff add in event tracking for stuff like form completion or file downloads, without needing to get developers involved. Reporting for stakeholders is also robust because of its integration with Google Data Studio, Google Sheets and other related tools.

Ultimately though, GA wins because these organizations outsource web development and digital marketing work to agencies or contractors, and they are the ones that make the tooling decisions. GA is a known quantity, so even if their contract isn't renewed, a new agency will be able to take over the account fairly frictionlessly.

And there are more contractors that are GA-focused than there are for Matomo, and that's important when you're tasked with shopping around for agencies.

Re: “Apps intended for kids may not include third-party advertising or analytics”

#365

Post by wayneftw »

cyrksoft wrote: post #352
wayneftw wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope. Kids demand Apple devices because of the cool factor. "Survey: 83% of US teens have an iPhone, Android 9%" - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19610357 Seems like they're abusing their monopoly to me.

Where do you see a monopoly? The fact that people choose it doesn’t make it a monopoly. Specially with that price tag. You can choose many other options. There is no real economic argument to call it a monopoly.

"Survey: 83% of US teens have an iPhone, Android 9%" - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19610357

They've got a monopoly on kids devices.

Re: “Apps intended for kids may not include third-party advertising or analytics”

#366

Post by cyrksoft »

wayneftw wrote: post #365
cyrksoft wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where do you see a monopoly? The fact that people choose it doesn’t make it a monopoly. Specially with that price tag. You can choose many other options. There is no real economic argument to call it a monopoly.

"Survey: 83% of US teens have an iPhone, Android 9%" - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19610357 They've got a monopoly on kids devices.

Market share is different from monopoly. Apple is not the only phone manufacturer. There are many companies out there making phones. The fact that everybody likes or chooses them doesn’t mean they are a monopoly.

Re: “Apps intended for kids may not include third-party advertising or analytics”

#367

Post by sdegutis »

vmurthy wrote: post #303
sdegutis wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not OP but I've had some thoughts on ads for a while that I've never shared: 1. Ads ruins user experience. This is pretty much an objective fact. People can and do adapt, but it's moving away from the ideal. 2. Ads often manipulates the user (emotionally, psychologically) to get clicks, which is just downright unethical. 3. Often unethical things are advertised, things that shouldn't even be on the market. These are…

Couldn't agree more on 2 and 3. What is even more unacceptable to me is that these ad networks track everything I do on the web. It is one thing that I see an ad for a laptop when I search for Chromebook (I'll call it contextual for ease) but totally different thing that I see ads for say Professional training when searching for Chromebook because I happened to click on a post on LinkedIn long ago. Other words, I don…

That's a good fifth point that I didn't consider: ads inherently promote and encourage data collection in unscrupulously unethical ways.

Re: “Apps intended for kids may not include third-party advertising or analytics”

#368

Post by frereubu »

lotu wrote: post #207
frereubu wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With all due respect, this is the kind of self-evident truth that I find it weird people use as "yeah, is that what you REALLY want?" Yes, that is what I want. I think society would be much better off without this kind of rubbish, and stuff the financial backers of this amoral race to the optimised bottom.

I realize you are not the original poster but it sounds like your view would be the same even if we lived in a world without children. In this case it’s not really about helping children it is about advancing your desired outcome and that annoys me a bit. The bigger issue is do you really think things will be better this way. Services like Google Search, Maps, newspapers would all become pay-walled. I honestly would…

OK, perhaps that was a little intemperate. But "Are you suggesting that because kids can use any app on a phone that all tracking and ads should be banned?" felt a bit like a conversation where someone is arguing against the death penalty and someone else says "Yeah, so you want murderers to go free?" There are lots of other possibilities, and if advertising and tracking is a on a spectrum from respectful to abusive we're currently way, way over towards the abusive end.

Re: “Apps intended for kids may not include third-party advertising or analytics”

#369

Post by Guest0918231 »

low_poly_shiba wrote: post #337
matt_morgan wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ever worked at a nonprofit? I have, my whole career, lots of them. Don't say this. Nonprofits use strategy after strategy, tested and untested and rational and intuitive, to increase donations in every way they can. They know what they're doing. Do they get it 100% right? No. Do they do it all day, every day, and know a ton about it? Yes. I can't tell you how many times someone has said to me "why do you guy…

Yes, I have, but didn't deal with this issue. I don't think this advice of "if you haven't done it you can't criticize or ask questions about it" is very good. It would bar me from commenting on and criticizing Michael Bay movies, so no thank you. I'd also like to know if the guy shuts off the ads when he makes more than is needed for maintenance costs.

No, I don't shut off the advertising.

1. That's my bill for hosting and bandwidth expenses. I obviously need to consider the cost of my time which is not included in that figure. The more money the site generates, the more time I invest in it. So, if it were to generate $150,000 from advertising, I wouldn't shut it off, but I'd start pulling my time out of other projects, and moving it into this community site to add more of the requested features.

2. I want to save for a rainy day. Online communities don't last forever. It would be short sighted to shut off advertising simply because this years expenses are met, and then two years from now I need to close up the site because advertising is falling short. When the site hits a rough patch, I want the savings to either push it through or pivot. Coasting on maintenance costs would be a dangerous road with an abrupt end.

Re: “Apps intended for kids may not include third-party advertising or analytics”

#370

Post by buremba »

yalok wrote: post #204
buremba wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, maybe they can't place an ad on your app but they do track all your user event data which means that they can target them somewhere else. All the iOS unique identifier, location, and user attribution data are collected directly into their servers.

yes, they collect and store that data, but what if they don't use it anywhere else other than for my app analytics? It's a very vaguely defined rule which may create tons of additional work for developers, yet may not improve the privacy in some cases.

Well, you can always use open-source solutions in order to collect your customer event data into your data-warehouse and run your queries on your own data.
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