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“Apps intended for kids may not include third-party advertising or analytics”

developer.apple.com

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Re: “Apps intended for kids may not include third-party advertising or analytics”

#281

Post by kd5bjo »

lotu wrote: post #207
frereubu wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With all due respect, this is the kind of self-evident truth that I find it weird people use as "yeah, is that what you REALLY want?" Yes, that is what I want. I think society would be much better off without this kind of rubbish, and stuff the financial backers of this amoral race to the optimised bottom.

I realize you are not the original poster but it sounds like your view would be the same even if we lived in a world without children. In this case it’s not really about helping children it is about advancing your desired outcome and that annoys me a bit. The bigger issue is do you really think things will be better this way. Services like Google Search, Maps, newspapers would all become pay-walled. I honestly would…

But in monetary terms, what do these “free” services cost to various populations? The advertisers believe that paying for the service is turning them a profit, so someone is paying more for the advertised products than they used to. Is this a case of people with disposable income subsidizing everyone else, or one of manipulating vulnerable populations to spend their money unwisely?

Re: “Apps intended for kids may not include third-party advertising or analytics”

#282

Post by CamperBob2 »

mc32 wrote: post #213
CamperBob2 wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Simple. Tell your child, "Don't worry. Nothing you see on a screen is real." That will immunize them from everything from zombies to pornography to Fox News.

That doesn’t sound mature and also is dismissive of psychological manipulation, etc. It’ll be as effective as saying, “don’t be afraid of the dark, there are no monsters, that’s just your imagination.”

That doesn’t sound mature

(Shrug) Don't tell me, tell Plato. He came up with the notion.

It’ll be as effective as saying, “don’t be afraid of the dark, there are no monsters, that’s just your imagination.”

That's pretty effective, and something almost every parent has to tell their child at one point or another. What do you recommend saying instead?

Re: “Apps intended for kids may not include third-party advertising or analytics”

#283

Post by kd5bjo »

eli wrote: post #46
mithr wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In general, I believe it's based on the belief that children in partiular don't yet have the necessary mental tools to be able to properly analyze content -- basically, that they're influenced by media to a much higher degree than adults. > Basically ads equivalent OTA television or magazine ads should be allowed I would guess that proponents of this approach also feel that the contents of TV/magazine ads should be s…

Then why are first-party ads allowed?

They’re requiring that the app publisher has editorial control over the ads that appear next to their content. This is a shift back to how things work in pre-internet media and ensures that any damage done by an inappropriate ad (whether by Apple, a government, or market forces) falls squarely on someone that had both the responsibility and means to block said problematic ad.

Re: “Apps intended for kids may not include third-party advertising or analytics”

#284

Post by [deleted] »

robomartin wrote: post #267
bunderbunder wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm not sure I morally disagree with advertising or tracking. This seems to me like one of those spots where one's approach to ethics can play a big part in the conclusions you draw. From a sort of Kant-style, deontological perspective, where you have to be able to say with confidence that something is morally wrong in order to make much of a judgment at all about it, yeah, it seems hard to mount a strong case agai…

The problem I have with the anti-advertising crowd is that none of them take their philosophy to the required ethical conclusion: Stop using free ad-supported resources. Google and Facebook are easy examples of this. The position would be far more ethically aligned if they unplugged from all ad-supported products and services.

[deleted]

Re: “Apps intended for kids may not include third-party advertising or analytics”

#285

Post by sa46 »

low_poly_shiba wrote: post #221
Guest0918231 wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I run a user-content website, and hate advertising too. But, the website costs $15,000 a year in expenses to run, and community donations bring in $3,000. Advertising generates $50,000. I stay with safe ad categories (no drugs, alcohol, gambling, adult content, etc), and use standard display sizes. No audio ads, background ads, popups, etc. I'm sure the site could generate twice the revenue with background advertisem…

Never ran something like this, but always wondered: why not have a visible counter saying "this is what it costs to run, please donate!" and let people donate to keep it up? Some kinda big progress bar somewhere or whatever. How do you know it "doesn't work with community donations" when you have no measures to help deal with the tragedy of the commons?

If wikipedia is any indication, it doesn't work without plastering the top half of the screen begging for a donation.

Re: “Apps intended for kids may not include third-party advertising or analytics”

#286

Post by blub »

notatoad wrote: post #240
move-on-by wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the problem, its just convenient and free. People are not thinking about the costs to the end consumer - which in this case is our children. I don't really fault PBS, but I do fault the advertising companies for our general lack of privacy and control over our own data. I also fault the politicians for turning a blind eye to it. I hope Apple's new strategy to go after privacy pays off in a big way and more co…

I think most people do realize the cost, and are simply unconcerned with giving google such critical information as "kids watch sesame street".

You think wrong, because it's not just one app.

In fact, so many apps embed these analytics frameworks, that it's possible to make an almost complete picture of what a device was used for every day, including location information, etc on the back-end.

Re: “Apps intended for kids may not include third-party advertising or analytics”

#287

Post by mehh »

sk0g wrote: post #170
mrep wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Norway also ban: Alcohol, smoke, gaming Gaming, as in like video games and board games are banned? Seriously?

I am fairly certain they mean gaming as in gambling. Would be a bit weird to ban video game ads, surely?

Hard gaming vs Soft gaming

Re: “Apps intended for kids may not include third-party advertising or analytics”

#288

Post by mehh »

frereubu wrote: post #117
move-on-by wrote: post #34

So far the only kids apps I've used with my little one is 'Sesame Street' and 'PBS Kids Video'. He loves Elmo, and its very handy in the pediatrician's waiting room to have a distraction. I also run a PiHole, and to my displeasure, I've found both these apps use Google Analytics. PBS Kids Video goes a few steps further and uses Google AdWords as well as ScorecardResearch analytics. These publicly funded apps are siph…

Have you considered a write-up of the issues with the CBeebies app? The BBC is the kind of organisation that might quite easily be shamed into removing those.

I think we are overloading what we mean by analytics and the purpose of it. Its not all about collecting profiles of users for advertising. It also about understanding the usage of your application. The BBC should absolutely by tracking the usage of their apps to ensure what the are producing has value, the just shouldn't allow that data to be used for third parties and their ad business. Note that BBC UK apps, and worldwide operate under different schemes.

Re: “Apps intended for kids may not include third-party advertising or analytics”

#289

Post by blub »

paulcole wrote: post #244
move-on-by wrote: post #34

So far the only kids apps I've used with my little one is 'Sesame Street' and 'PBS Kids Video'. He loves Elmo, and its very handy in the pediatrician's waiting room to have a distraction. I also run a PiHole, and to my displeasure, I've found both these apps use Google Analytics. PBS Kids Video goes a few steps further and uses Google AdWords as well as ScorecardResearch analytics. These publicly funded apps are siph…

> These publicly funded apps are siphoning data about me and my little one off to 3rd parties. If you need some pearls to clutch, there’s an app for that. Unfortunately it contains Google Analytics and ScorecardResearch analytics. I mean how much can there be to know about a kid? Loves Elmo? Oh better show it ads for Elmo lmao.

You can know who their contacts are and where they are for instance.

Apps do request these permissions, sometimes for legitimate reasons and analytics frameworks then take advantage of that data: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/12/10/business/loca...

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