Earlier quoted context omitted.
The interesting thing to me is that supposedly reputable news sites like The Washington Post [1] were taken in by this piece of disinformation, when it took the author "all of 10 minutes to figure out the truth". Have they sacked all their journalists and now just copy random crap off social media, or what? [1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/06/05/an-anguishe...
Writing of all sorts is currently under enormous financial pressure. Many "journalists" are no longer on staff with adequate pay, but are underpaid freelancers with no benefits. Local papers are shutting down in droves. Etc. It's a huge crisis and there's no good way to talk about it. I do freelance writing and blogging and I've been dirt poor for years. There is a long history of me either commenting on how the worl…
The Euthanasia That Wasn’t
51–60 of 131 posts
Re: The Euthanasia That Wasn’t
#52“The so-called ‘psychotically depressed’ person who tries to kill herself doesn’t do so out of quote ‘hopelessness’ or any abstract conviction that life’s assets and debits do not square. And surely not because death seems suddenly appealing. The person in whom Its invisible agony reaches a certain unendurable level will kill herself the same way a trapped person will eventually jump from the window of a burning high…
Sartre was a believer in absolute freedom, and that suicide was a choice among many others that a person could make (and indeed, Sartre eventually did).
Camus, on the other hand, believed that suicide was the rejection of freedom. Once you commit suicide, you are no longer free to make any further choices. I tend to be more sympathetic to this view: I have an eternity to be dead, but a short time make choices good and bad.
Re: The Euthanasia That Wasn’t
#53This is the most aggressively anti-human thing I have ever seen, possibly even more than ISIS or cartel executions, because at least the perpetrators of those atrocities know that they are doing evil, even if they're unrepentant, which is more than can be said of the doctors in this situation. I have been suicidally depressed, institutionalized. I'm better now. I suppose if I actually attempted to kill myself, but fa…
Who are you to tell anyone what life is about?
I don't necessarily agree with the actions of her family and doctors, especially as she was so young, but is it really just to want to condemn someone to lifetime of reliving their trauma? Some people can never get over their past trauma, and they carry it their entire life.
It it just to say that they must live their entire life in pain until they die of some other cause, just so that their friends and family don't feel upset because they chose to end their own life? Or at some point, do we say "we did everything they could, maybe this is for the best"?
Re: The Euthanasia That Wasn’t
#54“The so-called ‘psychotically depressed’ person who tries to kill herself doesn’t do so out of quote ‘hopelessness’ or any abstract conviction that life’s assets and debits do not square. And surely not because death seems suddenly appealing. The person in whom Its invisible agony reaches a certain unendurable level will kill herself the same way a trapped person will eventually jump from the window of a burning high…
If a mentally ill person is effectively treated the desire to kill themselves will generally subside, and at that point we know that it wasn't a rational choice but a biological symptom. The case here is much more difficult than say, assisted suicide for a terminally ill, old and frail patient.
it's not that they owe their life to us, but that we owe it to mentally ill people to care for them until they are in a state of mind in which we can be sure their decision to end their lives is not just an accident of brain chemistry. For a 17 year old girl the chance that her condition improves, even if treatment resistent at the current point at time, is actually still plausible.
Re: The Euthanasia That Wasn’t
#55Earlier quoted context omitted.
Writing of all sorts is currently under enormous financial pressure. Many "journalists" are no longer on staff with adequate pay, but are underpaid freelancers with no benefits. Local papers are shutting down in droves. Etc. It's a huge crisis and there's no good way to talk about it. I do freelance writing and blogging and I've been dirt poor for years. There is a long history of me either commenting on how the worl…
Do you think that aggregate subscriptions like Inkl make sense, or are they too cheap to leave any money for the actual journalists?
Re: The Euthanasia That Wasn’t
#56Sure, the Daily Mail isn't particularly a quality newspaper, but a lie about an entire country's medical practices is quite a bit different than a lie about some aristocrat's love life. And even then, aren't eg BBC Radio or the Independent supposed to be quality news sources? The latter writes "A 17-year-old girl who was raped as a child has ended her own life through legal euthanasia in the Netherlands" [0]. What's going on here?
This is the kind of stuff that we're being told only fringe media do, the rogue blogs that will do anything that heats up facebook outrage, for ad impressions - the kind whose business model is to invent lies for maximum shares. This story isn't about euthanesia or suicide. It's about how the mainstream media took a note from the invent-outrageous-lies-blogs' playbook. About how it's totally OK now for BBC Radio 4 to report flat out lies, if only it gets people talking about BBC Radio.
This is a serious problem. While everybody is falling over each other to blame Facebook for undermining democracy, apparently the likes of the BBC and the Independent are slowly transforming into the real perpetrators. Sure, I know why: their journalists are paid by the click just as any other. But apparently any sort of fact checking went out the window there, and I wonder whether that's a viable business strategy in the long term. Why consume "quality" media if the quality is the same as the inflammatory rando blog post your aunt just shared on Facebook?
I recognize that journalism is under a lot of financial pressure, but if lies like these get willfully spread by people who should know better, what's left? How do we know that this Politico article isn't a lie as well?
I'm deeply troubled by all this.
[0] https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/euthanasia-c... the headline I quoted is from the video. There's a little "oops we might've lied hihi" on the bottom of the article but they couldn't be bothered to fix the video because hey, clicks lol.
Re: The Euthanasia That Wasn’t
#57Earlier quoted context omitted.
Giving second parties control over the bodily autonomy of a first party because of second party opinions (with the notable bright line exception being first party acts of violence toward others) is not part of any society in which I wish to participate.
Say someone blackmails you to compel you to sign a DNR. Should that be considered valid? Or should another party be able to determine whether the legal order is valid?
What I am speaking of is of a person plainly expressing their own intent, perhaps to the contrary opinions of medical professionals, family, legal professionals, et c.
Obviously if that expression of intent was coerced, there is a question of legitimacy of the expression of intent itself. But that is not really what we are discussing.
There is of course room for legal opinion on whether or not the documentation of the intent is valid or not. But the intent itself cannot morally be questioned by any second party for any reason, on any grounds. Our bodies are our own.
Re: The Euthanasia That Wasn’t
#58“The so-called ‘psychotically depressed’ person who tries to kill herself doesn’t do so out of quote ‘hopelessness’ or any abstract conviction that life’s assets and debits do not square. And surely not because death seems suddenly appealing. The person in whom Its invisible agony reaches a certain unendurable level will kill herself the same way a trapped person will eventually jump from the window of a burning high…
If your happy but very drunk friend wanted to tapdance on the edge of a tall building, would you restrain them if necessary? Or if someone high on shrooms was trying to drink bleach? A suicidal mind is often one caught in the temporary throes of delusion and irrationality, even if it comes from internal wiring going haywire instead of external substances. Preventing someone from killing themselves is in their best in…
Why do you make this assertion that a rational person can't be suicidal? DFW was definitely a very rational person, for instance. I'd recommend reading Good Old Neon for an insight into his character, and a good depiction of both a suicidal and rational character[0]
> Suicidal impulses are most often fleeting relative to normal lifespan.
Key words there are 'most often', but I'm curious to know your evidence for this assertion.
> With therapy and medicine, she is very, very happy to be alive now
This is a great result for her, and you.
[0] http://sdavidmiller.com/octo/files/no_google2/GoodOldNeon.pd...
Re: The Euthanasia That Wasn’t
#59Earlier quoted context omitted.
Does this mean that anyone who wants to kill themselves at any time should be allowed to do so? If they lack the ability to do so for some reason should they be assisted? Is that should a moral imperative?
I have never heard anyone rational, even in pro choice forums, say it should be a free for all. Put age limits on it since children have developing minds and lack the perspective to make such choices. Put awareness/rationality checks on it the same way we do any other medical procedure with informed consent. Unless the person is being purposefully isolated and kept from others, which is an edge case, I don't see a sc…
Re: The Euthanasia That Wasn’t
#60Earlier quoted context omitted.
The interesting thing to me is that supposedly reputable news sites like The Washington Post [1] were taken in by this piece of disinformation, when it took the author "all of 10 minutes to figure out the truth". Have they sacked all their journalists and now just copy random crap off social media, or what? [1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/06/05/an-anguishe...
Writing of all sorts is currently under enormous financial pressure. Many "journalists" are no longer on staff with adequate pay, but are underpaid freelancers with no benefits. Local papers are shutting down in droves. Etc. It's a huge crisis and there's no good way to talk about it. I do freelance writing and blogging and I've been dirt poor for years. There is a long history of me either commenting on how the worl…