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“Apps intended for kids may not include third-party advertising or analytics”

developer.apple.com

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Re: “Apps intended for kids may not include third-party advertising or analytics”

#221

Post by low_poly_shiba »

Guest0918231 wrote: post #206
meowface wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not in the app market, but I run a few user-content-oriented websites which get millions of monthly hits. They're funded only by community donations. I decided to never add any ads to any of them. I'm not sure I morally disagree with advertising or tracking. (In my case, my websites are aimed at adults and there are no concerns about children seeing inappropriate content.) It's not about the morality or even the…

I run a user-content website, and hate advertising too. But, the website costs $15,000 a year in expenses to run, and community donations bring in $3,000. Advertising generates $50,000. I stay with safe ad categories (no drugs, alcohol, gambling, adult content, etc), and use standard display sizes. No audio ads, background ads, popups, etc. I'm sure the site could generate twice the revenue with background advertisem…

Never ran something like this, but always wondered: why not have a visible counter saying "this is what it costs to run, please donate!" and let people donate to keep it up? Some kinda big progress bar somewhere or whatever.

How do you know it "doesn't work with community donations" when you have no measures to help deal with the tragedy of the commons?

Re: “Apps intended for kids may not include third-party advertising or analytics”

#222

Post by cwkoss »

drivingmenuts wrote: post #125
Creationer wrote: post #72

Apple should just go all in: Disable free to play games targeted at children completely. Require every children's game to have an upfront price (I suppose the $0.99 minimum app charge at least). This would be great news for the market - game developers would focus on building more rewarding gaming experiences, instead of just endless skinner boxes. It would also help sell Apple devices, since developers would not nee…

I think your optimism is misplaced. App developers would soon figure out how to charge 99 cents for a Skinner box.

I wonder if you could list multiple copies of an MMO game client on an app store, with each client having a different price and providing different in-game aesthetic effects like "FooGame: Sparkly Hat Edition".

Could be an easy way to get around this limitation.

Re: “Apps intended for kids may not include third-party advertising or analytics”

#224

Post by [deleted] »

simongr3dal wrote: post #35
pnutjam wrote: post #12

That's great, except there is no way to create a "kids" account without another apple device. My kids school won't participate in the program to create kids accounts for schools, and I don't own other apple devices. So on my rented ipad, the only option is to create a 13+ year old account (for my kindergartner). So now that she's in 2nd grade, apple thinks she's 16. I've complained about this endlessly to the school,…

I'm no expert on family accounts but can't you set all that stuff up via macOS on a virtual machine? Or does it actually require iOS?

[deleted]

Re: “Apps intended for kids may not include third-party advertising or analytics”

#225

Post by bunderbunder »

meowface wrote: post #120
TheCapn wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you morally disagree with advertising/tracking monetization as a whole or just those particularly geared towards vulnerable populations? (children in your instance) I have my professional job developing software solutions for clients on a contractual base, but for a period after I graduated university I dabbled in mobile development and made the decision during that time that I'd never bloat my crappy apps with ad…

I'm not in the app market, but I run a few user-content-oriented websites which get millions of monthly hits. They're funded only by community donations. I decided to never add any ads to any of them. I'm not sure I morally disagree with advertising or tracking. (In my case, my websites are aimed at adults and there are no concerns about children seeing inappropriate content.) It's not about the morality or even the…

> I'm not sure I morally disagree with advertising or tracking.

This seems to me like one of those spots where one's approach to ethics can play a big part in the conclusions you draw.

From a sort of Kant-style, deontological perspective, where you have to be able to say with confidence that something is morally wrong in order to make much of a judgment at all about it, yeah, it seems hard to mount a strong case against ads.

From a more Bentham-style utilitarian approach, it's easier: Are ads and tracking a net benefit or detriment to people in general? AFAICT, the only people who try to mount a case that the answer is yes are people whose livelihoods depend on everyone being OK with ads.

Then there's the "do unto others" approach you get from virtue ethics. The GP's take of, "I'm not going to monetize with ads because ads annoy me" reminds me of that.

It's interesting, because, if you could paint those three approaches to ethics with a broad brush, the latter two would be, "Let's try and make things as nice for everyone as possible," while the first would be more like, "As long as it's not actually evil, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯"

Re: “Apps intended for kids may not include third-party advertising or analytics”

#226

Post by duxup »

panpanna wrote: post #87
duxup wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like they're trigger happy... but via automation and scripts that I'm not sure are getting that much. Like the volume is down, but for all I know it's just the same actors getting the same stuff out there. It's really hard to tell.

I thick they are starting to do some good. For what it's worth, Apple QA is also mostly automated.

It would be interesting to know how Apple's automation works as the impression (may not be accurate) is their approval or denying is a bit more precise.

Re: “Apps intended for kids may not include third-party advertising or analytics”

#227

Post by dllthomas »

bunderbunder wrote: post #225
meowface wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not in the app market, but I run a few user-content-oriented websites which get millions of monthly hits. They're funded only by community donations. I decided to never add any ads to any of them. I'm not sure I morally disagree with advertising or tracking. (In my case, my websites are aimed at adults and there are no concerns about children seeing inappropriate content.) It's not about the morality or even the…

> I'm not sure I morally disagree with advertising or tracking. This seems to me like one of those spots where one's approach to ethics can play a big part in the conclusions you draw. From a sort of Kant-style, deontological perspective, where you have to be able to say with confidence that something is morally wrong in order to make much of a judgment at all about it, yeah, it seems hard to mount a strong case agai…

> the only people who try to mount a case that the answer is yes are people whose livelihoods depend on everyone being OK with ads.

Playing devil's advocate... Advertising helps the world in the case where a person has a need and they see an ad that informs them of a way they hadn't considered to address that need, and that solution proves to be better than available alternatives.

... I'm sure that happens ever. I am skeptical that it's enough to net positive.

Re: “Apps intended for kids may not include third-party advertising or analytics”

#228

Post by gnopgnip »

cyrksoft wrote: post #176
jsnell wrote: post #172

Here's how I expect this to go: 1. Six months from now, Apple will announce a new ad network, which will be whitelisted for Kids apps. 2. Twelve months from now, they'll ban all non-Apple ad networks in kids apps. If they want to be subtle about it, I'm sure they'll find some inappropriate ad to use as a pretext. 3. 18 months from now, they'll open their ad network to all apps. 4. 24 months from now, they'll ban non-…

What's the problem about Apple doing that? It's their platform. You can go use whatever else you like, nobody forces you to use their system.

Apple force's you to use their platform if you have an Apple device. You can't install fdroid, or anything else.

Re: “Apps intended for kids may not include third-party advertising or analytics”

#229

Post by rodgerd »

sidlls wrote: post #32

This is interesting. What options does that leave for making money on these apps? Charging directly and first-party ads? Are parents willing to pay for these apps?

As a parent I've been cutting our family over to iPhones before this policy because the Android app world have become so fucking toxic. I'm delighted to be able to pay for things up-front as a business model.

Re: “Apps intended for kids may not include third-party advertising or analytics”

#230

Post by froindt »

low_poly_shiba wrote: post #221
Guest0918231 wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I run a user-content website, and hate advertising too. But, the website costs $15,000 a year in expenses to run, and community donations bring in $3,000. Advertising generates $50,000. I stay with safe ad categories (no drugs, alcohol, gambling, adult content, etc), and use standard display sizes. No audio ads, background ads, popups, etc. I'm sure the site could generate twice the revenue with background advertisem…

Never ran something like this, but always wondered: why not have a visible counter saying "this is what it costs to run, please donate!" and let people donate to keep it up? Some kinda big progress bar somewhere or whatever. How do you know it "doesn't work with community donations" when you have no measures to help deal with the tragedy of the commons?

Or with that, a visible running revenue counter with a probability that ads will show. If the site generates $3k/year and costs $15k/year 20% of the page loads would be ad free.

I don't blame GP for wanting to make some money - they're certainly putting in some otherwise unpaid hours. But a "Target 0" system could work well for some communities.

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