Languages of India • Hacker News Board

Re: Languages of India

#71

Post by rishav_sharan » Wed, Jun 05, 2019, 8:27 PM UTC

Jagat wrote: post #7

It's amazing how most Indians believe that Hindi is the national language of India, when there's no such as a national language in India. There are two official languages for union government communication - Hindi and English. I've also noticed that a lot of non Indians find it funny that most Indians here in bay area companies communicate among themselves in heavily accented English instead of The Indian language.

Thats because the Class 1 CBSE books said that Hindi is our national language, Peacock is the national bird, Tiger the national animal and Hockey the national sport. :D

Re: Languages of India

#72

Post by dmix » Wed, Jun 05, 2019, 8:29 PM UTC

owaislone wrote: post #42

jfk13 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> on the street level, the language is identical Personal anecdote: when I first went to South Asia, I spent time in southern Pakistan and learned some basic Urdu. Then I spent time in north India, among Hindi speakers. The language I'd learned was immediately usable there, but my local friends could also tell where it came from -- and sometimes would tell me "Aha! yes, we know what you mean, but that's an Urdu word…

They are almost identical. Standard Urdu taught in schools might be a bit hard to follow for Hindi speakers and vice-versa but on the street level, it really is almost exactly the same. As a native Urdu speaker, when I went to college in western India, people would often ask me if I knew Urdu and wanted to hear what it sounded like. They were always surprised when I revealed that I was speaking it all along as they a…

Is there a script you find "better" between the Hindi and Urdu one?

Re: Languages of India

#73

Post by rishav_sharan » Wed, Jun 05, 2019, 8:30 PM UTC

supernova87a wrote: post #64

Too many languages, too many religions to govern a country like this effectively. Unpopular truth, but truth nonetheless.

Yet governance has been pretty effective since the last 70 years and will only get better as more of Indians get educated and the population growth slows.

Re: Languages of India

#74

Post by samsonradu » Wed, Jun 05, 2019, 8:31 PM UTC

manbatman wrote: post #40

jfk13 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> on the street level, the language is identical Personal anecdote: when I first went to South Asia, I spent time in southern Pakistan and learned some basic Urdu. Then I spent time in north India, among Hindi speakers. The language I'd learned was immediately usable there, but my local friends could also tell where it came from -- and sometimes would tell me "Aha! yes, we know what you mean, but that's an Urdu word…

Same way like Italian and Romanian and Spanish

Not quite. As a Romanian speaker I can’t understand more than very basic Italian. Perhaps Spanish is slightly more understandable but still not to a 90% level for sure.

I also doubt they understand any Romanian at all.

Re: Languages of India

#75

Post by shripadk » Wed, Jun 05, 2019, 8:32 PM UTC

vorg wrote: post #63

shripadk wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> impose Hindi on all states This is so blatantly false. I am from South and a Kannadiga and I can tell you with conviction that in my lifetime I have never had anyone impose Hindi on me. This frenzy of Hindi imposition exists only in the states of Tamil Nadu and Kerala (and a little in Karnataka but has since died down once people became more aware). I blame the excessive regionalism in part but major part of the bl…

> Indian identity was split right in the middle and was done on religious lines India and Pakistan also each have their own major river system (Ganges for India, Indus for Pakistan) which is important for food supply and low transport costs. This helps each country remain functionally independent from the other.

Exactly! We can leave the unionising of the Indian subcontinent to a future generation that has risen above language, religious and ethnic divides and embraced common culture. Until then, it would be futile and foolish to unite diametrically opposed states into one entity. The unity should come from the people and not from political masters. That is when the Union would be able to function effectively.

Re: Languages of India

#76

Post by owaislone » Wed, Jun 05, 2019, 8:33 PM UTC

shripadk wrote: post #57

owaislone wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While it is true they are trying to do it, it's not anything new as Delhi has for decades tried to impose Hindi on all states and the southern ones don't take it well. That said, I don't think this can result in balkanization of India as generally India is way more united in-spite of issues like Delhi seen as having way too much control over the states (which is true in my opinion). Also, IMO, balkanization of the In…

> impose Hindi on all states This is so blatantly false. I am from South and a Kannadiga and I can tell you with conviction that in my lifetime I have never had anyone impose Hindi on me. This frenzy of Hindi imposition exists only in the states of Tamil Nadu and Kerala (and a little in Karnataka but has since died down once people became more aware). I blame the excessive regionalism in part but major part of the bl…

> This is so blatantly false. I am from South and a Kannadiga and I can tell you with conviction that in my lifetime I have never had anyone impose Hindi on me.

May be. I only think this because I've been so this by many people from South India and I'd rather take their word over the state's. Also, even if it is just a perception, it means such things were definitely attempted by the center. Perceptions don't just form out of nowhere.

> This can never happen....

I tend to disagree. You are implying a loosely bound union of many nations cannot exist because of religious differences. That means a tightly integrated and mostly centrally controlled state cannot function either if there are multiple religions identities present in the country which by extension means that the state of J&K has no place in present day India. I think it is definitely possible for such a "weak" union to exist. After all, people of this region have so so much in common. Plus, in such a union each "nation" would retain it's identity while having extremely close ties to other "nations of the union" e.g, free trade, travel, etc.

I agree that it's not probable for this to happen but it definitely is very much possible IMO.

Anyway, the original thought was not a proposal or even a prediction that this would happen but that this wouldn't be the worst thing to happen in case it did.

Re: Languages of India

#77

Post by sdiq » Wed, Jun 05, 2019, 8:33 PM UTC

Jagat wrote: post #7

It's amazing how most Indians believe that Hindi is the national language of India, when there's no such as a national language in India. There are two official languages for union government communication - Hindi and English. I've also noticed that a lot of non Indians find it funny that most Indians here in bay area companies communicate among themselves in heavily accented English instead of The Indian language.

>in heavily accented English

This reminded me of Mike Tyson - https://youtu.be/3QC-H9ozuSQ?t=156

Re: Languages of India

#78

Post by vinni2 » Wed, Jun 05, 2019, 8:34 PM UTC

The surprising thing for me is the fact “India (780) has the world's second highest number of languages, after Papua New Guinea (839).”

Re: Languages of India

#79

Post by aatharuv » Wed, Jun 05, 2019, 8:35 PM UTC

linguanerd wrote: post #24

aatharuv wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mumbai Hindi is not a creole by any definition of linguistics. It is actually a dialect of Hindustani with Marathi and other languages mixed in. A Creole specifically occurs when two languages (usually unrelated) suddenly mix together, usually with a _greatly_ simplified (but consistent) grammar from the parent languages. It's not just the result of heavy borrowing. I don't believe that's happened for Mumbai Hindi.

I believe you are confusing a "creole" with a "pidgin". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pidgin > pidgin language, is a grammatically simplified means of communication that develops between two or more groups that do not have a language in common: typically, its vocabulary and grammar are limited and often drawn from several languages. It is most commonly employed in situations such as trade, or where both groups speak…

Pidgins and Creoles are on a continuum -- once pidgin's get native speakers and a stable grammar, they're creoles. But Yeah, I didn't mention that.

Re: Languages of India

#80

Post by owaislone » Wed, Jun 05, 2019, 8:35 PM UTC

dmix wrote: post #72

owaislone wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are almost identical. Standard Urdu taught in schools might be a bit hard to follow for Hindi speakers and vice-versa but on the street level, it really is almost exactly the same. As a native Urdu speaker, when I went to college in western India, people would often ask me if I knew Urdu and wanted to hear what it sounded like. They were always surprised when I revealed that I was speaking it all along as they a…

Is there a script you find "better" between the Hindi and Urdu one?

I can't say better but I learned Urdu for 10 years in school as opposed to Hindi which was taught for just a year or so. As a result I find the Urdu (Persian) script easier to read but I don't think one is better than the other. Probably a linguist expert could compare the Arabic/Persian script to the Devanagri one and try to explain pros and cons of both. That would be an interesting read.