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Trump's Next Trade War Target: Chinese Students at Elite Schools

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Re: Trump's Next Trade War Target: Chinese Students at Elite Schools

#191

Post by ninkendo »

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #97
toomanyrichies wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> does it matter? It matters if they return to China with their American education and: -engage in nation-state attacks on behalf of the PLA [1], or -build facial-recognition software to further repress the Uyghur community [2], or -contribute to the "social credit" system which makes it next-to-impossible for everyday Chinese to express anything other than unvarnished support of the ruling party [3], or -eavesdrop o…

Every one of your scenarios has an American analog. You're basically reading off the script of the two minutes hate.

What’s the American analog of the social credit system?

Re: Trump's Next Trade War Target: Chinese Students at Elite Schools

#192

Post by nl »

ashelmire wrote: post #178
tntn wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

60-80% of graduate students in STEM fields in the U.S. are international students. It seems like having 60-80% fewer graduates would accelerate the decline of American science.

Don’t most of them return to their home countries? Seems like freeing up those spots for American students that will stay would be a boon for American science.

No, because graduate students are actually doing the science in the US.

If they are replaced by less capable students then the work being done will be of a lower quality.

Re: Trump's Next Trade War Target: Chinese Students at Elite Schools

#193

Post by Kurtz79 »

culturestate wrote: post #168
Kurtz79 wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you enter the country you get a stamp with your entry date. Doesn't this get checked when you leave, at passport control? I would think at the very least it would raise a huge red flag the next time you try to enter US... I also doubt that any serious employer would hire someone without checking his/her paperwork, outside maybe of seasonal/server jobs.

The U.S. doesn't have traditional outbound passport control - checks are made electronically when you book a plane ticket and the airlines are given a go/no-go to issue a boarding pass.

I must have entered/exited US about a dozen times in the last few years and I always had my passport checked by someone in uniform just before Security, when leaving.

Are these people not from Immigration/Border control?

Re: Trump's Next Trade War Target: Chinese Students at Elite Schools

#194

Post by paulgb »

threezero wrote: post #81
paulgb wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find this line of thinking so odd, because nobody ever says “exporting American {cars/corn/computers} to China drives up demand and costs to US citizens.” The worst-case scenario here is that education is economically just equivalent to an export, but that’s still a pretty great scenario! Especially since it’s an export that doesn’t pollute, supports high-paying labor, perpetuates the global premium associated with…

Well, except there’s a finite amount of educational slots, and so fewer people who would keep that education and knowledge in the US are able to get in.

I don’t see how it’s different. The instantaneous production limit of cars/corn/computers is also fixed, but can be increased with demand. There is a notorious shortage of jobs for new PhDs[1], so it’s not like labor is a limiting factor.

[1] https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2016/04/04/new-data-show...

Re: Trump's Next Trade War Target: Chinese Students at Elite Schools

#195

Post by nl »

briandear wrote: post #82
nneonneo wrote: post #9

Students from China (and many other countries) are required to renew their visas annually, a process which is already quite nerve-wracking for many. PhDs in particular can take anywhere from 4 to 8 years to complete, meaning 4-8 chances for your studies to be interrupted with the only option to return home while the visa renewal stalls. This article explicitly calls out the fact that renewals seem to have been gettin…

Was American science declining in the 1960s when almost no Chinese students were in American universities? Could there also be extremely smart people in Africa that might now find a place in American universities? Are there Americans that might now find a place in American Universities? I am not saying anything about visa policies, but suggesting that limiting Chinese students will hurt American science is a pretty n…

Students in China can’t just decide to go to the US, they have to be approved by the Chinese government and there is no doubt that such approvals require allegiance to the CCP and and some willingness to help the CCP when asked.

What on earth are you talking about? I mean they have to get a passport, true. This takes about 10 days, but has no special requirements.

But that's the same situation as in the US, where school students literally recite the pledge of allegiance.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_passport#Fee_and_proce...

Re: Trump's Next Trade War Target: Chinese Students at Elite Schools

#196

Post by C1sc0cat »

orhmeh09 wrote: post #187
C1sc0cat wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If its like the UK International students are a source of income as they pay more and subsidise the locals.

How did universities ever manage to operate whilst charging much lower/no tuition back when there was not a group like this?

They only catered for a much smaller group basically the elites and a few lucky Grammar school kids.

Re: Trump's Next Trade War Target: Chinese Students at Elite Schools

#197

Post by freeflight »

cltsang wrote: post #177
Tsubasachan wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its fascinating how America is slowly turning into a country that simply doesn't want foreigners. Sadly I like New York so I have to diligently go through the mountain of paperwork. How many people from the EU overstay or cause problems for the police?!

How did you get that impression? From what the article says America is only getting more conscious about foreigners from China, not foreigners in general. They are quite different. This is hardly a surprising move considering the recent realization that the Chinese government has been pushing propaganda against American values like freedom, democracy, and basic human rights, on American soil. One notable example is c…

It's hard not to get that impression with cage-camps at the borders, asking foreign travelers for all their social media details and locking out nationalities like Iranians and Chinese from certain ventures.

Yet, here you are claiming it's "all just Chinese propaganda", apparently completely unaware about the fact that a statement like that is pretty much it's very own propaganda by deflecting everything that could be wrong as a mere invention by the "enemy from outside".

But when outrageous claims are made about China [0], the vast majority of people just gobble them up like it's manifest truth itself, without even thinking about questioning the methodology or the involved parties motives.

[0] https://www.aspi.org.au/report/mapping-xinjiangs-re-educatio...

Re: Trump's Next Trade War Target: Chinese Students at Elite Schools

#198

Post by berbec »

ETHisso2017 wrote: post #119
the_svd_doctor wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, there is no such a rule. F-1 VISA are _typically_ granted for 5 years, but PhDs may be longer (6 or even more). Once your VISA expires, and if you go home, you need to reapply for a new one. For some (a small fraction through), VISA are granted for 1 year or are single entry. Those categories of students sometimes chose not to leave the country, for the risk of getting their VISA denied (and, hence, their whole s…

This is depressingly inhumane. Why is there no advocacy around the issue?

The current political climate has immigrants being the punching bag for every ill of society: drugs, gangs, unemployment, you name it. Pushing for legislation in the area is a non-starter for any politician that wants to get reelected.

Re: Trump's Next Trade War Target: Chinese Students at Elite Schools

#199

Post by lotsofpulp »

C1sc0cat wrote: post #145
lotsofpulp wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

H1-B provides for a terrible quality of life, and is only attractive if options in home country are worse.

It is in many cases ask any Indian on a h1b about the Dickensian employment laws in India reliving letters etc.

I know, and it’s why Indians use H1B, but it’s a terrible policy to be 1 step above Dickensian Indian labor laws and also hurts Americans for the benefit of the owners of capital.

Re: Trump's Next Trade War Target: Chinese Students at Elite Schools

#200

Post by inflatableDodo »

onetimemanytime wrote: post #180
dmos62 wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's an over-generalization. No country is one entity in the context of "what it thinks".

Well, someone makes that decision. Today is Trump and his advisers (if he listens to anyone :)) and Congress. No polls or votes are taken on things like banning Chinese students or not. Frankly, I don't think we should educate anyone that goes back to a hostile country. China is rising, and that can cause a lot of problems for us, see China Sea for one. https://www.cnbc.com/2019/06/03/china-army-colonel-says-beij...

>Frankly, I don't think we should educate anyone that goes back to a hostile country. China is rising, and that can cause a lot of problems for us, see China Sea for one.

This would be an utterly disasterous policy. The only reason to enact it is if your own side is actively seeking war.

And may I note that irrespective of the overall behaviour of the two regimes, in the case of complaining about China causing problems for US interests in the China sea, the China sea is a lot nearer to China than it is to the US.

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