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Apple Sign In

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Re: Apple Sign In

#451

Post by tinus_hn »

sturgill wrote: post #348
dfabulich wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Therefore, anyone offering Facebook/Google login will also have to accept Apple's anonymized forwarded email addresses, like fc452bd5ea@privaterelay.appleid.com.

But this explicitly doesn’t work as an SSO. How can I tie that back to the actual email address they would have used to create an account using their FB / Google account? This sounds like a tremendous headache that I really don’t want to worry about. But Apple is looking to leverage their power in the app market to force me to implement a tool I may not be interested in as a merchant? I despise being strong armed. I…

You can’t, that’s the idea. What do you need it for?

Re: Apple Sign In

#452

Post by philwelch »

sturgill wrote: post #367
EGreg wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Presumably it’s always the same address every time they sign in. It is used for single sign on after all! However, I wish email and sms would go away as a way to authenticate. Until it does I will be using foo+aliashere@gmail.com so that my account can’t get transferred to someone else through socially engineering a tired rep.

But someone who has already signed up via FB is going to click that button and then get angry when we can’t log them into their account. I personally don’t use FB login. And I use `+merchant` to keep track of bad actors. But from a merchant perspective this will likely be a chore. And Apple has decided that we don’t get to decide if it’s worth it. We can’t disable FB login because we’ve supported it for a long time a…

Apple's auth does allow you to use the canonical email address associated with your Apple ID rather than a one-off generated by Apple.

Re: Apple Sign In

#453

Post by jkirsteins »

danielscrubs wrote: post #437
cavisne wrote: post #398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems the email part is optional (ie you can choose to share your verified email with the company if you want). The above scenario goes against what they are trying to achieve though 1) If you support SSO and email/password - then the email and password are still stored (and possibly not hashed and salted if the developer is incompetent) - so you are at risk of compromise if you reuse passwords 2) If you store the…

EU is not picking on FB and Google specifically. This mindset is toxic. They are picking on all monopolies for European customers and have been for a long time. Basically we believe the market is not healthy if there isn’t any competition.

This is a bit rose tinted outlook. GDPR does not increase competition, the amount of regulation in EU and worker protections in place raise barriers for new competitors. France has laws that prohibit new movies from being put on Netflix in order to support local distributors etc.

Not saying what the EU does is goos or bad, but painting it as pro free market competition seems unfounded.

Re: Apple Sign In

#454

Post by tinus_hn »

ckuhl wrote: post #33
dyarosla wrote: post #19

Can’t services just disallow/block this address? Fun thing is, Apple themselves block name+addon@gmail.com addresses when using their dev console. You can bet that some companies will disallow Apple’s signature private passwords similarly if they can, in the name of ‘security’ or what have you. Or am I being too cynical? Feel free to CMV. EDIT: best response addressing this seems to be ‘The addresses are only generat…

Companies could absolutely disallow / block it. However they most likely won't for the same reason that people who are upset about Apple's 30% App Store cut still develop apps for iOS: they have their customers spend far more on average than other phone / OS users.

So a company would put a sign in with Apple button in their app, but disallow you from using it?

Re: Apple Sign In

#455

Post by r3bl »

applecrazy wrote: post #394
tty2300 wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not much better. Another phone goes to landfill because not even apple was able to repair it due to their horrendous practicices. It took me half an hour to remove a battery from an iPhone and I had to get the hair dryer out to melt the glue. With other devices I just unscrew a bracket holding the battery down and it takes me 5 minutes.

> Another phone goes to landfill That's disingenuous. Apple has a recycling program, where they take apart every component to be reused or recycled into new materials.[1] [1]: https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2018/04/apple-adds-earth-day-...

Has a recycling program =/= everyone who ever purchased an iPhone is using that recycling program.

7.8 million "Apple devices"[0] in 2018 is a lot, but an average iPhone is far more likely to end up on a landfill. If it were easy to extract the battery, that wouldn't be such a problem.

[0] They group them all together and I can't find any other metric: https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2019/04/apple-expands-global-...

Re: Apple Sign In

#456

Post by philwelch »

hobofan wrote: post #141
TomVDB wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question was not "who do you trust", but "who do you trust more ". Given that Google's business model depends on data sharing whereas Apple has made privacy one of their core features, I think the answer has to be Apple, even if you don't trust them entirely.

> The question was not "who do you trust", but "who do you trust more". The question doesn't _need_ to be "who do you trust more". (I know that I'm mostly repeating the parents points). I don't want a Google login. I don't want a Apple login. I don't want a Facebok login. I want a good old email/username login!

So you trust your password manager and perhaps whatever system encrypts your password manager data to share it across devices?

Re: Apple Sign In

#457

Post by tinus_hn »

nexuist wrote: post #356
mystcb wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that block a recent thing? It might be different as for my on GSuite account I can add the name+addon@mydomain.com - it might just be a difference between the "public" Gmail system vs the Gsuite Gmail system. In which case, my question is completely invalid and feel free to ignore ;) Note: This comes from my own developer account having 3 name+addon@ accounts live, and working with things like ApplePay etc for tes…

Developer with a name+addon@gmail.com Apple ID here. No idea what OP is talking about, I was able to generate my Apple ID and sign up for the dev console no problem.

Apple now strips the +... part when you create an ID. So if name@gmail.com is already in use, name+addon@gmail.com will be refused with the message that name@gmail.com is already an Apple ID.

Re: Apple Sign In

#458

Post by CaptainMarvel »

ryandvm wrote: post #372
sturgill wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But someone who has already signed up via FB is going to click that button and then get angry when we can’t log them into their account. I personally don’t use FB login. And I use `+merchant` to keep track of bad actors. But from a merchant perspective this will likely be a chore. And Apple has decided that we don’t get to decide if it’s worth it. We can’t disable FB login because we’ve supported it for a long time a…

"+merchant" doesn't do squat to prevent bad actors from selling your email address. Anyone so inclined to sell your address would just strip off the postfix since they know it's unnecessary per the spec.

If you email me without the +merchant postfix I gave you, your email will go into the trash without me even knowing you sent it.

Re: Apple Sign In

#459

Post by prepend »

albertgoeswoof wrote: post #164
prepend wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I pay $30/year for a cpanel host that includes unlimited mail forwarding for any address on any domain. This is a byproduct of what I really do which is host a bunch of sites. $48/year for email scrubbing seems like a high price. I think it’s great, and use it a lot. Just wonder how you got to that price vs like $10/year.

Pro users subsidise the free ones, unfortunately. Assuming a 1% conversion rate to pay server costs and 1-2 devs full time at 4 usd/pro user/month you need 2500 pro users, which is 250,000 users. That and people pay 4 bucks for a coke these days so it’s not really much. Also cPanel is most definitely an expert tool. I might make it paid only soon and reduce the price but at present there’s not much option to get real…

Thanks, this helps me understand and I appreciate you going into cost model for something that’s really up to you to decide.

$4 is not very much, you’re right, but that doesn’t mean that it should be spent unwisely otherwise it adds up quickly. It seems unlikely that this would need a full time dev to operate and seems more like a “4 hour workweek” type business once it’s set up that would have pretty minimal maintenance, or a super bored developer waiting around for a bug to patch.

Do you think you’ll drop the price once you no longer need a dev?

Re: Apple Sign In

#460

Post by jaakl »

alanh wrote: post #440
ulfw wrote: post #433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How will this work if I use non-Apple products (and GOD BEWARE !) move from say an iPhone to an Android or an overpriced Macbook to a PC? Once I chose to use Apple-Sign In will I be locked into the ecosystem? Will there be 'Apple-Sign In' for Android?

this is the same problem you get from any identity provider — what happens when you finally delete your facebook? — it's just more obvious with Apple. With a 97% satisfaction rate, most iPhone users don’t want to go anywhere else… but yes, if you want to stay free, you should always create credentials directly with any app or service you use, when possible. That said, the concept of "Apple Sign-In" for Android and ot…

It is not about deleting accounts or moving over. Heavy user has multi-device setup, I use Android tablet, iPhone, Mac and sometimes PC, some appliances like Synology with bundled apps also. Nowdays even my printer has online sign in, for file sharing apps. I expect same account to work everywhere. If they provide reasonable platform-independent email solution, it may work.
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