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Antitrust Troubles Snowball for Tech Giants as Lawmakers Join In

nytimes.com

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Re: Antitrust Troubles Snowball for Tech Giants as Lawmakers Join In

#131

Post by studentrob »

root_axis wrote: post #123
studentrob wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. Net neutrality needs to be an election issue in 2020. Red/blue agree. The most upvoted comment ever removed from t_d was about NN [1] [2]. [1] https://revddit.com/user/yiannopoulos_m?after=t1_dirwgoo&lim... [2] https://revddit.com/r/the_donald

Huh? red & blue definitely don't agree on NN. I know some might point to poll numbers that suggest a majority of republicans support NN, but its important to remember that republicans are ideologically opposed to politicians that support NN. This is similar to how a majority of republicans support universal background checks for firearms but nobody suggests that "red/blue agree" on this issue because, despite support…

What is your evidence? I cited mine above.

People who understand NN support it because it only enables entrenched interests to get more subscription fees from customers.

The strong arm is regional ISP broadband monopolies. Through them, a slew of services can be forced to pass costs on to consumers.

And, by the way, this map [1] is about to feature one fewer "competitor",

[1] https://www.webfx.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Top-In...

Re: Antitrust Troubles Snowball for Tech Giants as Lawmakers Join In

#132

Post by mailslot »

Meekro wrote: post #103
fyoving wrote: post #95

Allow me to temper some of the glee exhibited in the comments and even in some of the reports but a key line here is: "The divvying of antitrust enforcement does not mean that the agencies have opened official investigations" It is worth keeping in mind that antitrust enforcement in the US doesn't care about whiny competitors but if the enduser and customer is harmed and it doesn't appear to be the case when it comes…

Visa and Mastercard have a pretty effective duopoly, too! Their fees and chargeback procedures are a drag on the entire economy. Getting banned by them effectively kills your ability to accept payments, and many legal but politically unpopular businesses find themselves in the crosshairs.

Can we include Equifax, Experian, and TransUnion to the list of monopolistic anti-competitive financial companies?

Re: Antitrust Troubles Snowball for Tech Giants as Lawmakers Join In

#133

Post by Johnny555 »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #121
Johnny555 wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

there is a long list of companies and markets worthy of antitrust scrutiny... The real drag on the economy are the high prices of healthcare and housing I'm curious what you see as the antitrust violations that lead to high housing prices?

The housing case is non-traditional because the entity the cartel organizes through is the local government rather than a corporation. You have to live somewhere to get a vote there, so the people (sellers) who already own property in a location get a vote while the people (buyers) who are about to move there don't until after they have and have switched from customer to owner. The result is that the existing propert…

I don't think that's really an anti-trust problem, and I don't think you can call a majority of voters in an area a "cartel". It's a matter of giving the majority of residents/voters what they want, even if it's bad for them in the long run.

Re: Antitrust Troubles Snowball for Tech Giants as Lawmakers Join In

#134

Post by arcticbull »

Meekro wrote: post #103
fyoving wrote: post #95

Allow me to temper some of the glee exhibited in the comments and even in some of the reports but a key line here is: "The divvying of antitrust enforcement does not mean that the agencies have opened official investigations" It is worth keeping in mind that antitrust enforcement in the US doesn't care about whiny competitors but if the enduser and customer is harmed and it doesn't appear to be the case when it comes…

Visa and Mastercard have a pretty effective duopoly, too! Their fees and chargeback procedures are a drag on the entire economy. Getting banned by them effectively kills your ability to accept payments, and many legal but politically unpopular businesses find themselves in the crosshairs.

Chargebacks are overwhelmingly positive. It allows you to use your credit card fearlessly knowing the card companies have your back. Truthfully, if they decreased payment volume or "dragged the economy" card companies wouldn't offer them.

Re: Antitrust Troubles Snowball for Tech Giants as Lawmakers Join In

#135

Post by studentrob »

bduerst wrote: post #115
studentrob wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You must be joking. It was front page here and r/technology for months before net neutrality was repealed. There is no question that public support for net neutrality is broad and bipartisan. The only question that remains is which 2020 candidates will stand up to say they support net neutrality.

I think their point is that outside of some online communities (i.e. most people in the public sphere) there isn't interest or even awareness to net neutrality.

Oh I see now. Thanks for pointing that out.

I agree it's not a top 5 issue now, but I believe this is our generation's first amendment torch. We can carry it, or let it go out. To that end, I tend to ignore anyone who suggests "this isn't important" or has the defeatist view that "nobody else understands this" because it is our job to share it with them.

Re: Antitrust Troubles Snowball for Tech Giants as Lawmakers Join In

#136

Post by dahfizz »

studentrob wrote: post #113
twblalock wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have not heard anyone complain in person about the government killing net neutrality. The general public is not harboring resentment about it.

You must be joking. It was front page here and r/technology for months before net neutrality was repealed. There is no question that public support for net neutrality is broad and bipartisan. The only question that remains is which 2020 candidates will stand up to say they support net neutrality.

> general public

> front page of r/technology

If you think the average person follows r/technology, you may live in a bubble.

Re: Antitrust Troubles Snowball for Tech Giants as Lawmakers Join In

#137

Post by mailslot »

JohnFen wrote: post #81
bduerst wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Marketshare != Monopolizing Microsoft would have to be doing anticompetitive behavior to be monopolizing the desktop market. Things such as forcing OEMs to not allow linux support, or banning iTunes installation on Windows. Simply being popular isn't the same as a monopoly. Apple has, on the other hand, been monopolizing their iOS devices with the app store. It is the only way to install apps on iOS and Apple has pla…

> Microsoft would have to be doing anticompetitive behavior to be monopolizing the desktop market No. I think the distinction here is important and worth being mindful of. Whether or not a company is abusing their monopoly position has no bearing on whether or not they are a monopoly. You can't abuse a monopoly position if you aren't a monopoly to begin with, after all. The distinction is important because in the US…

Microsoft has a long history of illegal anti-competitive behavior going back decades. I particularly remember an attempt to break Lotus Notes in a service pack that backfired and broke Windows servers.

This was as they were building up Exchange.

Re: Antitrust Troubles Snowball for Tech Giants as Lawmakers Join In

#138

Post by Fellshard »

bduerst wrote: post #100
JohnFen wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Microsoft would have to be doing anticompetitive behavior to be monopolizing the desktop market No. I think the distinction here is important and worth being mindful of. Whether or not a company is abusing their monopoly position has no bearing on whether or not they are a monopoly. You can't abuse a monopoly position if you aren't a monopoly to begin with, after all. The distinction is important because in the US…

Again, simply being dominant in a market _is not_ being a monopoly. Monopolies are definitively the exclusive control or possession of the supply of the market. Just as a Monopsony is exclusive control or possession of the demand in a market. Microsoft has dominant market position but they do not control the entire supply of OS, hence they are the popular choice but not the exclusive choice. Whether or not a monopoly…

This always comes up - the vocabulary we use in this discussion has been heavily tainted over the years by those who would most benefit by broadening the definition of monopoly. Keep fighting the fight. Precision in language is vital on this front.

Re: Antitrust Troubles Snowball for Tech Giants as Lawmakers Join In

#139

Post by root_axis »

studentrob wrote: post #131
root_axis wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh? red & blue definitely don't agree on NN. I know some might point to poll numbers that suggest a majority of republicans support NN, but its important to remember that republicans are ideologically opposed to politicians that support NN. This is similar to how a majority of republicans support universal background checks for firearms but nobody suggests that "red/blue agree" on this issue because, despite support…

What is your evidence? I cited mine above. People who understand NN support it because it only enables entrenched interests to get more subscription fees from customers. The strong arm is regional ISP broadband monopolies. Through them, a slew of services can be forced to pass costs on to consumers. And, by the way, this map [1] is about to feature one fewer "competitor", [1] https://www.webfx.com/blog/wp-content/upl…

> What is your evidence? I cited mine above.

My evidence is the congressional record which indicates republican politicians overwhelmingly oppose NN and democratic politicians overwhelmingly support it.

I wouldn't regard a single post on a subreddit as evidence; it is at best an anecdote, and one of dubious credibility IMO.

Re: Antitrust Troubles Snowball for Tech Giants as Lawmakers Join In

#140

Post by dv_dt »

fyoving wrote: post #95

Allow me to temper some of the glee exhibited in the comments and even in some of the reports but a key line here is: "The divvying of antitrust enforcement does not mean that the agencies have opened official investigations" It is worth keeping in mind that antitrust enforcement in the US doesn't care about whiny competitors but if the enduser and customer is harmed and it doesn't appear to be the case when it comes…

My cynical suspicion is that the tech giant's platforms allow for citizen organization in a way that the other ignored monopolies do not.
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