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On the Pleasures and Sorrows of Life Without Screens

calnewport.com

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Re: On the Pleasures and Sorrows of Life Without Screens

#81

Post by scotty79 »

coldtea wrote: post #63
scotty79 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Smartphone is not one of the worse options. It's one of the best options. Thanks to it I'm just discusing ideas with you while lying in a garden. Which is at the moment my preferred way of wasting my time. No other tool would allow me to waste my time this way. If I couldn't do it I'd read fantasy book I got for my recent birthday but it wouldn't be nearly as intelectually stimulating.

> It's one of the best options. Thanks to it I'm just discusing ideas with you while lying in a garden. Which seems like a totally detrimental use of one's time!

At least it's not passive consumption.

Re: On the Pleasures and Sorrows of Life Without Screens

#82

Post by p1esk »

beat wrote: post #75
p1esk wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, then why are you here?

I thought about that. What I decided was to distinguish between social media driven by deliberately addictive engagement in order to sell ads (Facebook, Twitter), and social media that doesn't depend on ad revenue and invites active engagement rather than passive scrolling (Hacker News, and a guitar forum I read regularly). I don't need to give up all online interaction, just the ones that are actively and deliberate…

I don't know man. This sounds like:

"I used to have an alcoholism problem. I used to drink wine, beer, hard liquer, you name it. But then I did a cleanse in March, and I stopped drinking hard liquer and wine. I only drink beer now. But that's ok, because I actually like the taste of beer!"

Re: On the Pleasures and Sorrows of Life Without Screens

#83

Post by beat »

p1esk wrote: post #82
beat wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought about that. What I decided was to distinguish between social media driven by deliberately addictive engagement in order to sell ads (Facebook, Twitter), and social media that doesn't depend on ad revenue and invites active engagement rather than passive scrolling (Hacker News, and a guitar forum I read regularly). I don't need to give up all online interaction, just the ones that are actively and deliberate…

I don't know man. This sounds like: "I used to have an alcoholism problem. I used to drink wine, beer, hard liquer, you name it. But then I did a cleanse in March, and I stopped drinking hard liquer and wine. I only drink beer now. But that's ok, because I actually like the taste of beer!"

Yeah, it does. And if I felt that HN was intruding on my ability to do other things the way Facebook and Twitter do, I'd quit it, as well.

edit: Maybe a better analogy would be that HN can be chewing gum when I'm trying to quit smoking.

Re: On the Pleasures and Sorrows of Life Without Screens

#84

Post by Bakary »

asark wrote: post #76
Bakary wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good point. I would say that modern day distractions have an extra oomph however. I've never developed an addiction to books, crossword puzzles, or television whereas I've come to the point where I can't have a healthy relationship with video games.

I think video games went from "fun for a while, but eventually you wanna stop and go ride bikes" to "wait, what do you mean it's Monday morning?" at or a little after the 16-bit console era. There were always people who could just play Super Mario 3 all day or that one guy who did nothing but play Doom for six months or whatever, but most kids (and certainly most adults) would knock it off after a while. It wasn't a…

I think your analysis is spot on. Regarding that last part, I would add another disturbing argument. Some things are definitely easier to get, but the things that matter the most such as strong relationships or a sense of being useful and valued in a community are arguably harder to come by. Modern games and porn mimic having access to these needs and draw people in but fail to provide real satisfaction so the individual ends up like a moth on the lightbulb that burns it. You are under the illusion that your life is going well while at the same time you can sense that it isn't.

Re: On the Pleasures and Sorrows of Life Without Screens

#85

Post by [deleted] »

p1esk wrote: post #82
beat wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought about that. What I decided was to distinguish between social media driven by deliberately addictive engagement in order to sell ads (Facebook, Twitter), and social media that doesn't depend on ad revenue and invites active engagement rather than passive scrolling (Hacker News, and a guitar forum I read regularly). I don't need to give up all online interaction, just the ones that are actively and deliberate…

I don't know man. This sounds like: "I used to have an alcoholism problem. I used to drink wine, beer, hard liquer, you name it. But then I did a cleanse in March, and I stopped drinking hard liquer and wine. I only drink beer now. But that's ok, because I actually like the taste of beer!"

[deleted]

Re: On the Pleasures and Sorrows of Life Without Screens

#86

Post by scotty79 »

dan00 wrote: post #45
scotty79 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are right that you can build up resistance to boredom by reducing entertainment. I gained a ton after sitting through family dinners at my SO parents and grand parents. Initially I was bored out of my mind. Gradually I adapted and suffered less and less. But I don't see it as something positive. I feel like it broke my mind in some way. It replaced frantically struggling against boredom with nearly catathonic apa…

> But I don't see it as something positive. I feel like it broke my mind in some way. It replaced frantically struggling against boredom with nearly catathonic apathy. For me the opposite of boredom isn't apathy, but more a kind of freeing your mind from any entertainment needs. If the need vanishes then there's also no pain. > It feels more like a learned helplessness than improvement. Needing entertainment is IMHO…

> Needing entertainment is IMHO a lot more a learned helplessness.

Needing entertainment and seeking entertainment doesn't really fit the definition of learned helplessness.

Learned helplessness is when you are suffering no matter what you do so you stop making any attempts to lessen your suffering because you learned nothing works.

If human had learned helplessness attitude toward boredom and entertainment he wouldn't even bother pick up the phone because he'd believe that it won't help him be entertained.

You would probably think the guy is depressed and you'd probably be right because bordom and entertainment are such foundational features of the brain that it would require some serious brain damage to end up like that.

Re: On the Pleasures and Sorrows of Life Without Screens

#87

Post by bubblewrap »

rchaud wrote: post #59
mark_l_watson wrote: post #28

Digital Minimalism was probably my least favorite Cal Newport book, not for the subject matter but because of the reliance on third party stories. I like to hear peoples’ stories first hand. Even though I ended up being a partially failed case for using this book, I still got value from it. I mostly did the thirty day digital detox but ended up going back almost to my old routine. The difference is that I have perhap…

Having read a couple of Newport's books, I've discovered how he manages to teach university classes, conduct academic research AND write these general-audience books. No, it's not "having a 6PM work shutdown schedule" as he writes (although it's not a bad idea for some work styles): His formula is to take 50 paperback-size pages worth of good material from his blog posts, and then assemble 250 additional pages of flu…

What bothers me a little is that he preaches digital minimalism, but his newsletter comes by email and seems very frequent.

Maybe he should offer a snail mail subscription to his blog?

Re: On the Pleasures and Sorrows of Life Without Screens

#88

Post by dan00 »

scotty79 wrote: post #86
dan00 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But I don't see it as something positive. I feel like it broke my mind in some way. It replaced frantically struggling against boredom with nearly catathonic apathy. For me the opposite of boredom isn't apathy, but more a kind of freeing your mind from any entertainment needs. If the need vanishes then there's also no pain. > It feels more like a learned helplessness than improvement. Needing entertainment is IMHO…

> Needing entertainment is IMHO a lot more a learned helplessness. Needing entertainment and seeking entertainment doesn't really fit the definition of learned helplessness. Learned helplessness is when you are suffering no matter what you do so you stop making any attempts to lessen your suffering because you learned nothing works. If human had learned helplessness attitude toward boredom and entertainment he wouldn…

> Learned helplessness is when you are suffering no matter what you do so you stop making any attempts to lessen your suffering because you learned nothing works.

I'm really confused by your reasoning, because you also said that you experienced ways of handling your boredom to suffer less, and then you called it a learned helplessness, which is exactly the opposite.

By your definition an addict isn't helpless, because he can reduce his suffering by just taking drugs.

Not being able to handle your emotions, to soften them and to have some degree of control over your actions, is IMHO a kind of learned helplessness.

I think quite a few people learned to handle their emotions in non constructive ways - I certainly have my own bad habits - by doing something to feel better, watch TV, eat too much or whatever else.

Re: On the Pleasures and Sorrows of Life Without Screens

#89

Post by scotty79 »

dan00 wrote: post #88
scotty79 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Needing entertainment is IMHO a lot more a learned helplessness. Needing entertainment and seeking entertainment doesn't really fit the definition of learned helplessness. Learned helplessness is when you are suffering no matter what you do so you stop making any attempts to lessen your suffering because you learned nothing works. If human had learned helplessness attitude toward boredom and entertainment he wouldn…

> Learned helplessness is when you are suffering no matter what you do so you stop making any attempts to lessen your suffering because you learned nothing works. I'm really confused by your reasoning, because you also said that you experienced ways of handling your boredom to suffer less, and then you called it a learned helplessness, which is exactly the opposite. By your definition an addict isn't helpless, becaus…

> By your definition

It's not my definition. It's THE definition. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learned_helplessness

> addict isn't helpless, because he can reduce his suffering by just taking drugs.

Yes. Being an addict has nothing to do with learned helplessness.

> you experienced ways of handling your boredom to suffer less,

No. I didn't do anything. Just my suffering turned into apathy and I didn't suffer as much.

> Not being able to handle your emotions, to soften them and to have some degree of control over your actions, is IMHO a kind of learned helplessness.

Then update your definition of learned helplesness to match THE definition of learned helplessness. The thing you have in mind is called emotional dysregulation disorder , I think.

Re: On the Pleasures and Sorrows of Life Without Screens

#90

Post by [deleted] »

scotty79 wrote: post #89
dan00 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Learned helplessness is when you are suffering no matter what you do so you stop making any attempts to lessen your suffering because you learned nothing works. I'm really confused by your reasoning, because you also said that you experienced ways of handling your boredom to suffer less, and then you called it a learned helplessness, which is exactly the opposite. By your definition an addict isn't helpless, becaus…

> By your definition It's not my definition. It's THE definition. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learned_helplessness > addict isn't helpless, because he can reduce his suffering by just taking drugs. Yes. Being an addict has nothing to do with learned helplessness. > you experienced ways of handling your boredom to suffer less, No. I didn't do anything. Just my suffering turned into apathy and I didn't suffer as mu…

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