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On the Pleasures and Sorrows of Life Without Screens

calnewport.com

71–80 of 91 posts

Re: On the Pleasures and Sorrows of Life Without Screens

#71
post #5
post #2

Funny how younger people don't even know how the true boredom looks like. They think they get bored on their phones. Only after they go on screen detox they realise how much more fucking boring the life is. Especially if you don't have an obsessive hobby and do not want to bother other people just because you personally are bored. I feel bad for people older than me that never got adjusted to the smartphones when the…

Maybe I'm just too old for it, but what is this "being bored" thing you're talking about? I clearly recall staring blankly into space while solving problems in my mind, or even just feeling the surroundings, as some of the most interesting moments of my life. I don't recall ever getting bored, not once.

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Re: On the Pleasures and Sorrows of Life Without Screens

#72

The article is quite optimistic about peoples' abilities to transform their newfound boredom into something creative, but as in the example with books, this digital minimalist "healthy" boredom also has its prerequisites to make it work. By likening social media use to addiction, only the negative effects are highlighted. For example, the waiting line in the supermarket used to be full of aggression, it has become mu…

>the waiting line in the supermarket used to be full of aggression, it has become much calmer with phones, What? Grocery lines used to be people reading magazines/tabloids/tv guides or sending their kid to go get something they forgot, now it's people yacking loudly on their phone or playing candy crush waiting for the person in front of them to finish self checkout.

One of the few good things about phones on our brains is it helps us from getting angry after a line takes a few minutes.

Re: On the Pleasures and Sorrows of Life Without Screens

#73
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But I feel sorry to see them suffer while they might have not if they were able to use smartphone for entertainment. Well, they also might have not if they have gotten a hobby, learned to read books, and so on. Why feel sorry that they're not accustomed with one of the worse options? And one that everybody and their dog seems to want to cut down these days?

Smartphone is not one of the worse options. It's one of the best options. Thanks to it I'm just discusing ideas with you while lying in a garden. Which is at the moment my preferred way of wasting my time. No other tool would allow me to waste my time this way. If I couldn't do it I'd read fantasy book I got for my recent birthday but it wouldn't be nearly as intelectually stimulating.

Sounds like a waste of a perfectly good garden. Try looking at a plant for 5 straight minutes. It is amazing the number of details and features and events you can see if you just sit still for 5 mins and look.

Re: On the Pleasures and Sorrows of Life Without Screens

#74
post #69

I read Digital Minimalism back in February, and did a cleanse in March per his recommendations. One thing I noticed... I normally keep track of books I've read. I jumped from reading two books a month to reading six. Was I seriously reading four books a month in bullshit screen scrolling and arguing with people who are wrong on the Internet? Apparently. I still use the phone as distraction, but now I do it with the K…

Wait, then why are you here?

Re: On the Pleasures and Sorrows of Life Without Screens

#75
post #74
post #69

I read Digital Minimalism back in February, and did a cleanse in March per his recommendations. One thing I noticed... I normally keep track of books I've read. I jumped from reading two books a month to reading six. Was I seriously reading four books a month in bullshit screen scrolling and arguing with people who are wrong on the Internet? Apparently. I still use the phone as distraction, but now I do it with the K…

Wait, then why are you here?

I thought about that. What I decided was to distinguish between social media driven by deliberately addictive engagement in order to sell ads (Facebook, Twitter), and social media that doesn't depend on ad revenue and invites active engagement rather than passive scrolling (Hacker News, and a guitar forum I read regularly). I don't need to give up all online interaction, just the ones that are actively and deliberately unhealthy.

Re: On the Pleasures and Sorrows of Life Without Screens

#76
post #66

If you want to distract yourself while not doing anything you will find a way to do it. Before smart phones there were computers and video games. Before that there was television. Before that there was printed fiction of many sorts, most of it of no personal or social value at all. It is good to strive to do worthwhile things. The worthless things you do to fill your time are not preventing you from doing anything el…

Good point. I would say that modern day distractions have an extra oomph however. I've never developed an addiction to books, crossword puzzles, or television whereas I've come to the point where I can't have a healthy relationship with video games.

I think video games went from "fun for a while, but eventually you wanna stop and go ride bikes" to "wait, what do you mean it's Monday morning?" at or a little after the 16-bit console era. There were always people who could just play Super Mario 3 all day or that one guy who did nothing but play Doom for six months or whatever, but most kids (and certainly most adults) would knock it off after a while. It wasn't a widespread issue, even among the small segment of the population that played games, even if some did have problems even then.

There was the occasional eat-your-life-for-weeks-on-end game but they tended to be confined to genres like 4x and RPGs (Ultima series, say) and you didn't see multiple high-quality works of that sort every single year. The other big exception was probably MUDs and other games where social, online multiplayer was a major component.

I think a combo of 1) refining and focusing games to drive "engagement", 2) games just getting better over time, in a lot of ways, 3) multiplayer and social elements becoming more common, and 4) digital distribution putting unlimited novelty at one's fingertips, has made the whole artform kinda scary, unless you stick strictly to shortish, tight single-player games. Or local multiplayer, I guess, since it's hard to binge that until 3AM on a regular basis, for obvious reasons. Leveling concepts, lengthy turn-based games, randomness of rewards, and online/social components are all especially dangerous.

Actually point 4 goes for most things, now. It's kinda too fast & easy to get... well, almost everything. I think there's a reason an unfettered will and easy gratification aren't usually things depicted as improving characters in fiction, for example, and often do the opposite.

Re: On the Pleasures and Sorrows of Life Without Screens

#77
post #51
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are very lucky. I clearly recall intense boredom from pre-phone times. Every time I was forced to stay in some place and do nothing, like while waiting at the doctor's, using public transport, at school during some classes, at family dinner, at couples dinner, in church, even at the funeral, sometimes even in my own home. There was a saying that intelligent people are never bored. Untrue. I have IQ over 150 and b…

If you want people to take you seriously. Never cite your iq unless there is a very good reason. This is not one

I was providing data point disproving (dumb) claim I heard some people make. If I just said I'm intelligent and bored you could just think I'm not that intelligent. I thought it was better to tell you exactly how intelligent I am so you can decide for yourself if that's intelligent enough or not. IQ is just a number like height or age. I just stated it as it was measured by Mensa membership test.

And I don't care much about people taking me seriously.

Re: On the Pleasures and Sorrows of Life Without Screens

#78

Digital Minimalism was probably my least favorite Cal Newport book, not for the subject matter but because of the reliance on third party stories. I like to hear peoples’ stories first hand. Even though I ended up being a partially failed case for using this book, I still got value from it. I mostly did the thirty day digital detox but ended up going back almost to my old routine. The difference is that I have perhap…

I concur; Digital Minimalism is his weakest book, and Deep Work is his best. On the other hand, I think Digital Minimalism is also his most immediately useful and applicable work, and is probably a necessary precondition for engaging in deep work properly.

I did have a slip and started using Facebook again recently, but a two day bout of people I think of as allies being profoundly and loudly wrong on the Internet got me right back off it. Once you recognize the patterns, it's almost self-reinforcing to stay away.

Re: On the Pleasures and Sorrows of Life Without Screens

#79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> exploring things that are around her. That works for first few years of life. > She does that to not be bored. Exactly. But at age 7 or 9 she'll have most of the things figured out and when you place hear in novelty lacking, restricted environment like at or near the table adults are eating and talking about same things seemingly forever you'll see her suffer. I hope you'll notice and help her find entertainment.

I grew up without phones, and for the most part without computers (early years). There were many times I was bored as a kid but most of the time I found activities to fill that time. Being bored a is okay and should not be seen as time needed to be filled. Kids require boredom to enable creativity. It takes imagination to go from bored to doing something. It’s actually part of the developmental process and should not…

> My guess is you don’t have kids. This certainly feels like an opinion of a younger person

I'm 40 and I don't have kids, but I remember quite a bit from my childhood and its challenges. My friends have kids and I like them and I see how they struggle to entertain themselves. I buy them legos to enrich their environments. I even occasionally get concerned how much they play on their phones when I'm not playing with them.

> Now think about how long it’s been since we advanced from first mobile entertainment to now.

Since first mobile entertainment device was a stick I'd say quite a bit of time has passed.

Smartphone is not the ultimate boredome nullifier. It's just the best, richest, most versatile tool we have so far. But if you think your kids should get bored don't worry. Boredom will always find the way. Kids get plenty bored when they are on their phones (more than a-dull-ts). Then they seek new stuff, on their phones and outside of them. There are lots of worse ways to fight the boredom like joining some cultish group or trying drugs.

Re: On the Pleasures and Sorrows of Life Without Screens

#80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Smartphone is not one of the worse options. It's one of the best options. Thanks to it I'm just discusing ideas with you while lying in a garden. Which is at the moment my preferred way of wasting my time. No other tool would allow me to waste my time this way. If I couldn't do it I'd read fantasy book I got for my recent birthday but it wouldn't be nearly as intelectually stimulating.

Sounds like a waste of a perfectly good garden. Try looking at a plant for 5 straight minutes. It is amazing the number of details and features and events you can see if you just sit still for 5 mins and look.

I already looked at plants over my four decades of life and they are not that interesting unless you need them for something. And you rarely do.

Besides, I was looking today at small aphid infested tree for few minutes. Even poked some. Then I got bored and went back to discussing you. There are so many minutes to kill in a given day.

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