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Taiwan's digital minister on combatting disinformation without censorship

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Re: Taiwan's digital minister on combatting disinformation without censorship

#71

Post by NotPaidToPost »

Ericson2314 wrote: post #62
NotPaidToPost wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's dangerous to assume that one side are the good guys who never lie while the other are the bad guys who always do. Disinformation comes from all sides and one has to be critical of everything.

Yeah by making your own counter-message, you're being humble with respect to that possibility. Let there be two propagandas dropped at the same time and hopefully the truth will tip the scales.

If the truth was self-evident fake news would not exist...

Often there isn't even one truth.

And of course when you have two competing versions there is no guarantee that one is true, or that one is not true for that matter.

I'm just saying to people should use caution and not take anything at face value.

Re: Taiwan's digital minister on combatting disinformation without censorship

#72

Post by mleonhard »

Combatting disinformation will become more and more important for every organization. I'm glad to see at least one government taking it seriously and pushing social/media companies to actually do something and add tools. When will we have degree programs in Disinformation Prevention and Control, Anti-Manipulation, Discourse Integrity? How about job titles like Discourse Protector, Media Accountability Officer, Fact-Checker, and Truth Wielder? I think companies usually hire PR firms to do this work. That's like hiring thieves to protect your valuables. It can work, but is it really the best strategy?

Re: Taiwan's digital minister on combatting disinformation without censorship

#73

Post by NotPaidToPost »

komali2 wrote: post #39
NotPaidToPost wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't seem to really be contradicting my point. You're just assuming that the 'good guys' don't lie while the others are the 'bad guys' who obviously do lie. There are indeed fighting propaganda with counter-propaganda, which is an age old strategy. They do seem to have adapted it for our era of instant communication and social media. Now, working out the facts in any given situation is not always easy. Everyone…

One difference is that they can be held accountable for their actions, something that doesn't apply to freedomeagle69.facebook any more than it applies to people working at the PRC ministry of "cultural well-being." Doesn't that make a difference?

It does not, as we can experience every day...

Re: Taiwan's digital minister on combatting disinformation without censorship

#74

Post by vkou »

ThrowawayR2 wrote: post #24
mc32 wrote: post #9

Tang speaks of propaganda and disinformation and how historic propaganda by the government is more or less indistinguishable from disinformation at least by a significant segment of the population. ...But she says that to combat disinformation campaigns the government ministries are in charge of pre-empting disinformation by disseminating their version of information... But that seems like a contradiction. Government…

" propaganda (n.) information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote or publicize a particular political cause or point of view. " If the Taiwanese government ministries were putting out information _of a misleading or slanted nature_ in their official capacity, the press and public would rightly call them out on it.

Mainstream press doesn't like to call the government out on bald-faced lies, because then they get cut off from government information sources.

This is currently happening with the White House. Nobody has enough of a spine to be sufficiently critical of the firehose of garbage that it broadcasts, because their press correspondent credentials will be revoked.

Re: Taiwan's digital minister on combatting disinformation without censorship

#75

Post by mleonhard »

eric_khun wrote: post #19
dominicl wrote: post #3

Great approach, and a smart minister. Living in Taipei I can only congratulate the country for this lively and young democracy. If you consider moving to Asia, Taiwan is the most forward, fair and open society.

Taiwan, is trying really hard to attract foreign talents. If you're interested, check their Golden Card Permit. It's a visa+redisent card allowing you to stay and work for anyone there up to 3years. The only requirement is to justify of a salary of 160k NTD/month(~USD 5210/month), anywhere in the world, if you don't earn that, try the skills application[1]. I'll not talk about all the positive things about Taiwan, ju…

The Gold Card Permit is now 5 years. Spouses and children can get national health insurance even if they don't live in Taiwan.

https://foreigntalentact.ndc.gov.tw/en/Content_List.aspx?n=6...

Re: Taiwan's digital minister on combatting disinformation without censorship

#76

Post by ilaksh »

CharlesColeman wrote: post #20

For a very brief time, late in the Cold War, the US State Department had a very shoestring team called the "Active Measures Working Group" who worked to investigate and counteracting disinformation. They had some success, such as uncovering the Soviet origins of the lie that the US created AIDS in a military lab, but the effort was wound down after the Soviet Union fell: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_Measures_…

Off the top of my head, I don't have a bunch of links, but it is my impression that propaganda and counter-propaganda are extremely important strategic ongoing activities for all major governments including the US. This is due to the relationship between overt state activities (i.e., they need to be motivated by ethical concerns) and the press.

Re: Taiwan's digital minister on combatting disinformation without censorship

#77

Post by mikepurvis »

komali2 wrote: post #31
mc32 wrote: post #9

Tang speaks of propaganda and disinformation and how historic propaganda by the government is more or less indistinguishable from disinformation at least by a significant segment of the population. ...But she says that to combat disinformation campaigns the government ministries are in charge of pre-empting disinformation by disseminating their version of information... But that seems like a contradiction. Government…

That's why the free press is imperative. It sort of "lends confidence" to anything the government puts out. It keeps them honest, because they know they'll be torn a new one if they put out falsehoods. The USA technically has this as well but the existence of entertainment shows billing themselves as news, such as "Fox News," has found a way around this system - foment distrust of everyone BUT "your side" for a full…

To be fair, "entertainment as news" covers the spectrum— The Daily Show and Last Week Tonight are absolutely in that category as well. Of course, those are also a few hours a week rather than a 24hr barrage, and I suspect that a greater proportion of their viewers understand that their mission is to generate laughs, if necessary at the expense of a total commitment to the facts.

Re: Taiwan's digital minister on combatting disinformation without censorship

#78

Post by wil421 »

jhedwards wrote: post #65
wil421 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment is the exact one I see on HN and reddit. Yet the USA and EU have democracies with close to a billion people combined. India is an example of a developing democracy with a population close to China and all the issues that come with a huge population. Yet India is a democracy and the people have gone from a population ruled by the British to a democracy. The people of anywhere should get to decide what the…

> The people of anywhere should get to decide what they want. I don't dispute this. I dispute people in their comfy first world homes pontificating about how China should have democracy, when they haven't been to China and experienced: 1.) the kinds of problems China faces and 2.) the difficulties facing solving those problems in China It smacks of arrogance and youthful naivety. Yes we have a democracy in the US and…

What are a few specific issues that are unique to China?

Re: Taiwan's digital minister on combatting disinformation without censorship

#79

Post by tsimionescu »

komali2 wrote: post #31
mc32 wrote: post #9

Tang speaks of propaganda and disinformation and how historic propaganda by the government is more or less indistinguishable from disinformation at least by a significant segment of the population. ...But she says that to combat disinformation campaigns the government ministries are in charge of pre-empting disinformation by disseminating their version of information... But that seems like a contradiction. Government…

That's why the free press is imperative. It sort of "lends confidence" to anything the government puts out. It keeps them honest, because they know they'll be torn a new one if they put out falsehoods. The USA technically has this as well but the existence of entertainment shows billing themselves as news, such as "Fox News," has found a way around this system - foment distrust of everyone BUT "your side" for a full…

Well, to be honest, the free press is often its own source of misinformation, often simply parroting the government / big business position, for a variety of reasons - since way before stuff like Fox or Breitbart.

There is sadly no simple answer to the problem of obtaining The Truth...

Re: Taiwan's digital minister on combatting disinformation without censorship

#80

Post by mc32 »

vkou wrote: post #74
ThrowawayR2 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" propaganda (n.) information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote or publicize a particular political cause or point of view. " If the Taiwanese government ministries were putting out information _of a misleading or slanted nature_ in their official capacity, the press and public would rightly call them out on it.

Mainstream press doesn't like to call the government out on bald-faced lies, because then they get cut off from government information sources. This is currently happening with the White House. Nobody has enough of a spine to be sufficiently critical of the firehose of garbage that it broadcasts, because their press correspondent credentials will be revoked.

It doesn’t even have to be adversarial. Sometimes you have a fawning press. or the premier, President, prime minister, etc., can be very charismatic.
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