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Huawei reassesses goal to be world’s bestselling smartphone vendor

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Re: Huawei reassesses goal to be world’s bestselling smartphone vendor

#181

Post by devereaux »

metildaa wrote: post #145
DevX101 wrote: post #56

The long term impact of this Huawei dispute will be China building out a complete vertical communications/computing stack from low level chips to operating system to phone design. They won't get any market share in the U.S. but they'll dominate China (obv), India, Africa, and have some decent minority share in Europe. The ban is great for U.S. companies in the short term that are behind on 5G, but this will harm U.S.…

China already has an (uncompetitive) alternative stack, covering silicon to operating system. The problem is with building a competitive stack, Huawei can't get access to a 7nm fab in China, nor is their talent skilled in working with the limitations of said newer process, which kneecaps their ability to build chips competitive with Qualcomm and Apple. Huawei can build 7nm chips at TSMC, but due to their ARM license…

> VThe problem is with building a competitive stack, Huawei can't get access to a 7nm fab in China

yet

> Huawei can build 7nm chips at TSMC, but due to their ARM l

ARM -> RISC, as ARM is not the only game in town. For example, at the moment I am having a lot of fun with a Unielec u7621 board (2 mini PCIe, mSata and USB3 with hardware accelerated NAT to handle 1Gbps) that costed me about $45 : https://openwrt.org/toh/unielec/u7621-06

I would love to see MIPS64 SOCs with a few GBs of RAM to replace my raspberries

Re: Huawei reassesses goal to be world’s bestselling smartphone vendor

#182

Post by pishpash »

ethbro wrote: post #163
scottLobster wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because that's worked so well for the last 20 years. If China would open their economy to US companies in the same way the US was open to China pre-trade-war, then things could work. As it stands China makes no secret about their desire to displace the US as the world's leading superpower, they've proven time and again they'll exploit any openings we give them toward that end. They don't want win-win scenarios, they…

That's the gist of China's admission to the WTO: they would have in no way qualified in terms of transparency or free trade, but promises were made that things would change. They didn't. If Chinese products are so yellow-star-spangled awesome, then why not let their citizens choose freely between Chinese and foreign products? Free trade is a two way street.

What are you even talking about?

There are plenty of choices between domestic and foreign products in China: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7Jxci7d8UM

On the other hand, good luck getting a Chinese smartphone in the US now. Better pony up your $1K+ for Tim Cook.

Re: Huawei reassesses goal to be world’s bestselling smartphone vendor

#183

Post by DiogenesKynikos »

yourbandsucks wrote: post #132
artificial wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the trade war is interesting. If this were a street fight where someone hit you (for decades) and you hit back and the perception trumpeted is suddenly you’re escalating things. Compare it to the previous administration which had excellent relations and plenty of IP theft and those companies could demand whatever with little recourse. Definitely politics but not as usual.

The Chinese were playing by exactly the rules we set and asked them to play by, for decades. American companies were ecstatic to outsource manufacturing someplace cheap. Only in the last couple years have people gotten upset and started calling them cheaters or whatever, retroactively. It raises some questions. Are we blaming them for our inability to socialize our gains from trade? Were we expecting them to never le…

The irony is that all these complaints about IP theft started to flare up once China started to invest heavily in R&D and started pulling ahead in certain high-tech sectors. The real fear isn't that China is stealing IP, but that it might surpass the US economically. Huawei is a perfect example of this. Their heavy investments in the development of 5G and resulting dominance are precisely what caused them to become a target of the US government.

Re: Huawei reassesses goal to be world’s bestselling smartphone vendor

#184

Post by actuator »

DevX101 wrote: post #56

The long term impact of this Huawei dispute will be China building out a complete vertical communications/computing stack from low level chips to operating system to phone design. They won't get any market share in the U.S. but they'll dominate China (obv), India, Africa, and have some decent minority share in Europe. The ban is great for U.S. companies in the short term that are behind on 5G, but this will harm U.S.…

China, sure. India, I am not so sure. All the popular social media platforms(except TikTok) in India are US based. English being the gateway language for most of the influential users, makes it trivial for platforms made in US to capture market there. Also, US has much more cultural exports to the country than China. There is no advantage a Chinese clone startup would have over a US one in India unless the product is vastly superior; this is why even Chinese firms are investing in Indian startups rather than entering into the market directly.

Hardware, they might dominate but for that to happen they need to have a solid alternative to the US based services.

Re: Huawei reassesses goal to be world’s bestselling smartphone vendor

#185

Post by asenna »

gpm wrote: post #142
DevX101 wrote: post #56

The long term impact of this Huawei dispute will be China building out a complete vertical communications/computing stack from low level chips to operating system to phone design. They won't get any market share in the U.S. but they'll dominate China (obv), India, Africa, and have some decent minority share in Europe. The ban is great for U.S. companies in the short term that are behind on 5G, but this will harm U.S.…

Hopefully the other long term impact will be western companies realizing they can't rely on being able to continue to do business with Chinese ones. The Chinese government will be perfectly happy to pull that plug when it suits them even if the American government hadn't been.

From all of this, don't you think it's more likely long term impact is that other countries realize how dependant they are on American products?

Re: Huawei reassesses goal to be world’s bestselling smartphone vendor

#186

Post by RcouF1uZ4gsC »

actuator wrote: post #184
DevX101 wrote: post #56

The long term impact of this Huawei dispute will be China building out a complete vertical communications/computing stack from low level chips to operating system to phone design. They won't get any market share in the U.S. but they'll dominate China (obv), India, Africa, and have some decent minority share in Europe. The ban is great for U.S. companies in the short term that are behind on 5G, but this will harm U.S.…

China, sure. India, I am not so sure. All the popular social media platforms(except TikTok) in India are US based. English being the gateway language for most of the influential users, makes it trivial for platforms made in US to capture market there. Also, US has much more cultural exports to the country than China. There is no advantage a Chinese clone startup would have over a US one in India unless the product is…

Also in regards to India, China is a much more geo-strategic rival than the US. I do and China have actually had a shooting war. They also have territorial disputes. I suspect India trusts China less than it trusts the US.

Re: Huawei reassesses goal to be world’s bestselling smartphone vendor

#187

Post by dodobirdlord »

pishpash wrote: post #182
ethbro wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the gist of China's admission to the WTO: they would have in no way qualified in terms of transparency or free trade, but promises were made that things would change. They didn't. If Chinese products are so yellow-star-spangled awesome, then why not let their citizens choose freely between Chinese and foreign products? Free trade is a two way street.

What are you even talking about? There are plenty of choices between domestic and foreign products in China: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7Jxci7d8UM On the other hand, good luck getting a Chinese smartphone in the US now. Better pony up your $1K+ for Tim Cook.

> What are you even talking about?

It is well understood that the ability of foreign companies to do business in China is extremely constrained. Considering that the topic is Android, it seems worth noting that basically every Google service is blocked in China by the Great Firewall.

Re: Huawei reassesses goal to be world’s bestselling smartphone vendor

#188

Post by freeflight »

ethbro wrote: post #161
d3v0 wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US government doesn't care about privacy, they care about other nations spying on their citizens. It is evident from all the leaks of NSA/CIA that they spy more on their citizens than other nations'.

Technically, the US spies on the world... and shares info about their citizens with a number of other governments. On the other hand, the US isn't currently occupying, detaining, and requiring patriotic reeducation for an ethnic minority within its borders. I feel like an "It's already happening, and this is what you get" appraisal cuts less favorably towards China than the US.

> On the other hand, the US isn't currently occupying, detaining, and requiring patriotic reeducation for an ethnic minority within its borders.

Let's just ignore that the US is still running torture black-sites to this day and droning people all over the planet often based on nothing more than metadata and questionable ML algorithms [0] because that's what "the US spying on the world" is mostly about: State-sponsored assassinations and abductions.

That's why the US doesn't exactly occupy a moral high-ground on these issues, the only reason many US Americans think they are is that they've bought into the "only protecting you from the next 9/11" narrative, which is exactly the same narrative the Chinese government is peddling to its own citizens to justify its own measures: "Fighting terrorists, keeping the country save".

A cynic could now try to measure the bad vs the worse, but the reality remains that both are committing crimes against humanity on a regular basis and both justify them in exactly the same ways.

[0] https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/02/the-n...

Re: Huawei reassesses goal to be world’s bestselling smartphone vendor

#189

Post by loceng »

DevX101 wrote: post #56

The long term impact of this Huawei dispute will be China building out a complete vertical communications/computing stack from low level chips to operating system to phone design. They won't get any market share in the U.S. but they'll dominate China (obv), India, Africa, and have some decent minority share in Europe. The ban is great for U.S. companies in the short term that are behind on 5G, but this will harm U.S.…

Until the world of democracies decide to subsidize the costs to help counter the pitfalls of censorship.

Re: Huawei reassesses goal to be world’s bestselling smartphone vendor

#190

Post by scottLobster »

pishpash wrote: post #177
scottLobster wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because that's worked so well for the last 20 years. If China would open their economy to US companies in the same way the US was open to China pre-trade-war, then things could work. As it stands China makes no secret about their desire to displace the US as the world's leading superpower, they've proven time and again they'll exploit any openings we give them toward that end. They don't want win-win scenarios, they…

Oh please. Plenty of Chinese acquisitions and investments were denied pre-trade war. You also see almost no Chinese brands in the US, but they are everywhere in the rest of the world. You think that's an accident? There was never any open market in the US, that's your first myth. US market access has been a political tool since at least World War II. What Trump has done is ripping the covers off the whole machinery,…

Never said the market was completely open, but the US doesn't require foreign companies to partner with a state-run competitor to steal their IP, then increase regulations until they ultimately run the foreign company out of the country. That's been the Chinese playbook for over a decade, even after admission to the WTO.

Also last I checked Foxconn bought quite a bit of property in Wisconsin, even if they strangely haven't done much with it. Could a US company buy (and by buy I mean get one of those multi-decade leases, since the CCC technically owns all the land) property in China?

The US is far from the Captain America ideal, but from a trade perspective we've been a lot more fair with China than they have been with us.

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