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India heatwave temperatures pass 50 Celsius

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241–250 of 269 posts

Re: India heatwave temperatures pass 50 Celsius

#241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are travelling because otherwise you will starve while dying from disease, you are a refugee. Economic migration generally assumes that you are not likely to die from returning. I do not think it is that wise to conflate the terms.

Being too poor to not have enough food, or experiencing a crop failure, does not meet official definitions of refugee eligibility: https://www.unrefugees.org/refugee-facts/what-is-a-refugee/

It does meet common dictionary definitions though - https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/refugee

Re: India heatwave temperatures pass 50 Celsius

#242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Air conditioning itself is a significant contributor to greenhouse gas emissions, via energy consumption: https://www.rehva.eu/knowledge-base/rehva-journal/chapter/ai... See the pie chart on page two: eletricity consumption from cooling systems is 17% of global consumption. The IPCC expects this usage to rise as temperatures rise. I would also like to challenge the notion that human beings understand how to use air c…

Air curtains can be extremely efficient and allow doors to stay open. That sounds like an insane waste of money and energy if store owners are not using one - are you sure you're not just feeling the 10-20% lost cold air when walking past?

Yes, I'm sure.

Edit: because obviousy I also go into shops to buy stuff and I've never seen an air door used. If air doors are used, they are very, very rare.

Re: India heatwave temperatures pass 50 Celsius

#243
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The wall our president wants to build has nothing to do with current immigration trends. They’re banking on this future. Steve Bannon has this book he’s always talking about, The Camp of the Saints. It’s the clearest and most concise guide for how they see the climate future rolling out. (This is also why I bristle when they get called climate change deniers. They’re not, they just reached different conclusions.) htt…

The Camp of the Saints has nothing to do with climate change It's story about brown and black skinned others destroying western civilization with immigration. The motive is racist. The tone of the book is very passionate and overly emotional. Here is short preface Jean Raspail wrote to his book: > I HAD WANTED TO WRITE a lengthy preface to explain my position and show that this is no wild-eyed dream; that even if the…

Whether the novel had anything to do with climate change is irrelevant to the lessons that people take from it.

Re: India heatwave temperatures pass 50 Celsius

#244
post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now days, you can get 24x7 electricity in tier 1, 2 & 3 cities. I am not sure about villages. Our country is almost power surplus nation now.

That’s hard to believe, there are still power cuts (even if for 1-2 hours max) in summers.

Depends on the particular states. Some states have the necessary economic resources to buy power at peak hours when necessary.

Re: India heatwave temperatures pass 50 Celsius

#245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's that simple at all. The principal human-appreciated effect of AC is the dehumidifying of the air when it's cooled. The dry interior air allows human perspiration to regulate temperature effectively. The AC doesn't have to cool all the bodies, it just has to keep the air dry enough.

Don't ACs dehumidify by condensing the water? If so then it means they need to get rid of the heat of vaporization, the same amount of energy the humans shed by evaporative cooling.

In a closed system sure, but I'd expect a larger building to have significant fresh-air return systems.

In a scenario where you've filled the place with people, the interior humidity is going to exceed that of the exterior air and you'd just start dumping the moisture outside exchanging with the fresh, dryer air. It's a comfort regression sure, but not a everyone dies situation.

The survival of the people doesn't come down to the AC heat pump keeping up, it comes down to supplying them enough water to drink and disposing of the humidified air.

My point is just that it's the relative humidity that matters, and the AC system has some options there. I've lived through a desert summer in a small space without any AC at all. I'd just keep the windows closed as deep into the day as possible riding out the night's cooling until the air gets too humid indoors from sweat and respiration for the fan to have any cooling effect. At that point I'd open the windows for relief. The air coming in was usually much hotter than the interior air, since the space was well insulated and nights get cool, but it didn't matter because it's very dry air and perspiration resumes functioning. The situation is easily survived unless you run out of water for your person.

Of course if the outdoor air is something like 100% humidity there's only the heat pump option, but that simply doesn't happen in deserts when it's hot out. It's a desert, not the tropics.

In the desert the relative humidity shoots up when it cools down, the humid nights are the worst. But it's because they cooled down. Again, not a survival problem since it's not that hot, just uncomfortably muggy. One saving grace with deserts is they don't generally have any mosquitoes, so these humid nights can easily be spent outdoors without any annoyance.

Re: India heatwave temperatures pass 50 Celsius

#246
post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this is normal, then you imply that the article linked by inflatableDodo is wrong? Btw, I was kind of impressed, when visiting India and speaking to a few locals, that they don't see climate change to be a real thing, or at least to be such a big problem, and much overrated. The claim was basically that it was always very warm, and it is just normal that way, and they don't expect it to become much warmer. I'm not…

Why impressed by that, though?

Hm, maybe the wrong word in this context. It left a big impression on me, but not in a positive way.

Re: India heatwave temperatures pass 50 Celsius

#247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's that simple at all. The principal human-appreciated effect of AC is the dehumidifying of the air when it's cooled. The dry interior air allows human perspiration to regulate temperature effectively. The AC doesn't have to cool all the bodies, it just has to keep the air dry enough.

Don't ACs dehumidify by condensing the water? If so then it means they need to get rid of the heat of vaporization, the same amount of energy the humans shed by evaporative cooling.

Yes, ACs are heat pumps, which means they're just moving heat from one area to another. So yes, the heat shed by human beings via evaporative cooling, is then dumped outside via heat of vaporization.

Specifically the ambient indoor air heat is absorbed by refrigerant which is transformed into a superheated vapor saturated with moisture. When this vapor either touches a cooler surface, or has cooler air blown past it, it will dehumidify and exhaust the heat it has absorbed indoors to the outside. The mechanical work done by the AC (fans, pumps) is also being released as heat. So the total energy being dumped outside is therefore the heat that's taken from the inside plus the energy used by the AC released as heat.

Re: India heatwave temperatures pass 50 Celsius

#248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep I think mass migration is inevitable. Given the absolute mess migration was out of Syria into Europe (and that was comparatively minor) I think it's going to be unpleasant. Once it starts it'll snowball as well instead of an orderly evacuation it'll be pell-mell. Sometimes think it would be nice to have a single rational world government so that we could deal with these things on a species level. Of course if we…

Can anyone guess where will the first wave of climate change refugees will be from and where they'll be heading too?

To the extent that the Syrian civil war was aggregated by drought, we may have already seen the first climate refugees.

Re: India heatwave temperatures pass 50 Celsius

#249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every human is effectively a 100W space heater just from being alive. That means you need at least 30W of air conditioning capacity per human to keep the temperature constant (on top of what you need to counter heat from outside). Unless these buildings are designed as emergency shelters for heat waves their air conditioning systems won't be able to cope with all the people.

I don't think it's that simple at all. The principal human-appreciated effect of AC is the dehumidifying of the air when it's cooled. The dry interior air allows human perspiration to regulate temperature effectively. The AC doesn't have to cool all the bodies, it just has to keep the air dry enough.

It's more complicated then that. Take a look at this psychrometric chart showing the environmental bounds at which human comfort is guaranteed: http://comfort.cbe.berkeley.edu/

You can see there that even at extremely dry conditions, if the operative (ambient + radiant) temperature is hot enough, it will cause heat discomfort. Even if the human starts sweating, that'll only reduce the temperature a bit so dehumidification isn't the only role of air conditions, sensible cooling is also a factor.

Re: India heatwave temperatures pass 50 Celsius

#250
post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A tub will work, sure, as long as it's pulled from a large body of water that hasn't warmed up with the air. Hopping in the local lake is an obvious choice. But in a detached demographic sense: effectively everyone lives in a city in the modern world, and while their housing might not be air conditioned most of the major buildings are. In an emergency like this everyone would just crowd into office buildings and shop…

Every human is effectively a 100W space heater just from being alive. That means you need at least 30W of air conditioning capacity per human to keep the temperature constant (on top of what you need to counter heat from outside). Unless these buildings are designed as emergency shelters for heat waves their air conditioning systems won't be able to cope with all the people.

How are you deriving the 30W of AC capacity here?
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