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India heatwave temperatures pass 50 Celsius

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Re: India heatwave temperatures pass 50 Celsius

#111

Post by wongarsu »

jjuhl wrote: post #54
gingabriska wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not surprising that people are unable to sympathize with people who they've never seen. I suggest you travel through India and you'll realize how mistaken you are, sometimes the carbon emission of a village with 100 members is less than a typical American household, specially now when LPG is rolling out even in the remotest and poorest families.

For the record; I've travelled in India and parts of Africa. That's not the point. The point is simply biology. If we reduce our population sufficiently (by whatever means), then the effects we have on the global climate may start to wear off. This is just one example of how we are reaching a limit and our species is starting to die off as a result. Given enough such situations our species may eventually reach a sust…

The problem is that those who emit the most are best equipped against any ill effects. The US (and Europe) are in quite temperate climate. There will be some internal migration to the cooler regions, somewhat higher taxes to pay for sea walls, storm drains and some permamently running pumps, higher insurance premiums for many types of insurance, etc. But all those are minor inconviniences compared to what those that barely have a carbon footprint will experience.

That means whatever nature "does" to kill humans and balance our carbon budget would have to kill 90% of all humans to have enough of an effect. If that's the plan then just nuking the 10% of humanity with the highest carbon emissions would be more efficient and more humane.

Re: India heatwave temperatures pass 50 Celsius

#112

Post by bdcravens »

awakeasleep wrote: post #97
caymanjim wrote: post #94

This sounds shocking to a lot of people, but it's not new or unexpected, and it's not even that uncomfortable if you have shade and water. I don't mean to downplay the risk to those who don't have shade or water, or who have to work exposed, but it's not as scary as you might think. I lived in Tempe, AZ for years, and summer temperatures would regularly be over 45C/113F. I walked or biked four miles to work in that.…

You're missing the effect of humidity. Our bodies rely on evaporative cooling to reduce heat, which is why we sweat and why you need water. When humidity is above 50% evaporative cooling stops working, so temperatures slightly above our body temperature become lethal.

> Low humidity makes a huge difference in what you can put up with.

Re: India heatwave temperatures pass 50 Celsius

#113

Post by jjuhl »

inflatableDodo wrote: post #105
jjuhl wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Me first what ? I don't get what you are saying / you don't make any sense to me. I'm glad I have apparently made my point clear. But what is yours?? And please don't pull that bogus racist card again. Race has got nothing to do with any of my comments.

I never said it did. However for my views on people using the term 'race card' please see my replies to tinus_hn. Now this isn't personal to you specifically, however in regard to your query, Me first what? , I have long thought that people who advocate the benefits of depopulation by mass die-off, should generally lead by example.

I probably will - given age and living habits. But that aside; are you saying that we should try and sustain inbounded population growth on this tiny globe of ours? And if so, why/how?

Re: India heatwave temperatures pass 50 Celsius

#114

Post by sn41 »

kerng wrote: post #20
beckler wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Technically summer doesn't start until June 21.

That's the western definition of summer. In some cultures (not sure about India), solstice is the middle of summer.

It's not about culture alone, rather also about the weather patterns. In India, monsoon is the major climactic event around then. So it's not spring-summer-autumn-winter in India (in most part of the country), rather, it is summer-monsoon-winter

Re: India heatwave temperatures pass 50 Celsius

#116

Post by noir_lord »

wongarsu wrote: post #102
noir_lord wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember reading a sci-fi story back in the 80's (damn I wish I could remember the name) where that basically happened, Europe and the US fortified their borders (massive walls/fences, automated weapon systems, usual sci-fi fare) and left the rest of the world to it's own devices. I was only a kid and I remember thinking "I can't imagine that ever happening" then I look at the refugee camps in EU states (Greece par…

If some of the worse projections become true and large stretches of land become uninhabitable or very inhospitable my money is on the US deploying semi-automated machine gun turrets along the border wall: the turrets will have automated target aquisition and tracking but a minimum-wage border patrol agent in an office in Austin will have to confirm the kill decision. It will be about as controversial as the drone pro…

Those automated machine guns already exist, a Korean company was developing them over a decade ago for the DMZ.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SGR-A1

Re: India heatwave temperatures pass 50 Celsius

#117

Post by TeMPOraL »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #40
dependsontheq wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you write the same thing about Houston or Paris? If not it’s just racist.

This is how all organisms’ population dynamics work. They expand until they meet their boundary conditions.

The defining charteristic of humanity is that we refuse to accept natural population dynamics and don't let ourselves be governed by them.

Re: India heatwave temperatures pass 50 Celsius

#118

Post by wongarsu »

chrisseaton wrote: post #87
wongarsu wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least in Europe the summer solstice is regarded as the beginning of summer. It takes months for the land and water bodies to warm up, so this definition makes the seasons line up with temperatures observed in Europe. Depending on geography it might make less sense elsewhere, just as not every place has four seasons.

> At least in Europe the summer solstice is regarded as the beginning of summer. I think in Europe it's called midsummer - middle of summer. That's what Wikipedia says as well. > Traditionally, in many temperate regions (especially Europe), the summer solstice is seen as the middle of summer and referred to as "midsummer".

At least in my experience the summer solstice is called midsummer, but is not (any more?) regarded as the middle of summer. According to [1] summer is commonly seen as beginning in June, with the exact date varying between the first, the 21st, the day of the summer solstice (20th/21st) or the end of May. [2] gives some insight into the mechanism causing this definition of the seasons.

1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summer#Summer_timing

2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seasonal_lag

Re: India heatwave temperatures pass 50 Celsius

#119

Post by hedora »

gingabriska wrote: post #49
noir_lord wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep I think mass migration is inevitable. Given the absolute mess migration was out of Syria into Europe (and that was comparatively minor) I think it's going to be unpleasant. Once it starts it'll snowball as well instead of an orderly evacuation it'll be pell-mell. Sometimes think it would be nice to have a single rational world government so that we could deal with these things on a species level. Of course if we…

Can anyone guess where will the first wave of climate change refugees will be from and where they'll be heading too?

Climate change refugees are already common.

For instance, climate change played some role in the current Venezuelan refugee crisis (the one that has Trump separating families and housing people in camps under overpasses, or bussing them to sanctuary cities).

Today, the main problem is that their government started to collapse in 2017, so they are unable to supply food to their population.

Why did the government start to collapse? Well, they have seen lower crop yields in recent years, which means more food imports, which means they are more vulnerable to embargoes, etc.

It only has data to 2016, but this site shows across the board agricultural production collapses in 2015 and 2016.

https://www.ceicdata.com/en/venezuela/agricultural-productio...

The government went into disarray in 2017.

In 2018 (and maybe earlier; tldr) US sanctions cut off oil revenue. The sanctions are due to terrorism, corruption, human trafficking, and human rights violations, which are, again symptoms of a collapsing government:

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/row/IF10715.pdf

You may also remember tortilla riots a few years back when the price of corn spiked. That probably led to some migration.

Arguably, and famines that led to refugees in the last 10-20 years are due to climate change.

The issue is that we’re at a tipping point where they will become more common.

Re: India heatwave temperatures pass 50 Celsius

#120

Post by caymanjim »

awakeasleep wrote: post #97
caymanjim wrote: post #94

This sounds shocking to a lot of people, but it's not new or unexpected, and it's not even that uncomfortable if you have shade and water. I don't mean to downplay the risk to those who don't have shade or water, or who have to work exposed, but it's not as scary as you might think. I lived in Tempe, AZ for years, and summer temperatures would regularly be over 45C/113F. I walked or biked four miles to work in that.…

You're missing the effect of humidity. Our bodies rely on evaporative cooling to reduce heat, which is why we sweat and why you need water. When humidity is above 50% evaporative cooling stops working, so temperatures slightly above our body temperature become lethal.

Rajasthan is a desert. The city mentioned in the article, Churu, currently has a humidity of 11%. I mentioned Tempe because it's nearly an identical climate. I've spent time in Ajmer, India, which is pretty close to Churu. It was only about 45C/113F when I was there.

Obviously this is all anecdotal, but my anecdote here isn't off base.

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