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If people tried to pay for other services like they try to pay for programming

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Re: If people tried to pay for other services like they try to pay for programming

#31

Post by Goladus »

axiom wrote: post #14

This is the difference between business-to-business versus buying consumer goods. You can't waste time negotiating with every client who buys a $50 pair of shoes from you - it's just not cost effective. So you have a fixed price for everyone. However you can (and should) negotiate with people buying $20k worth of services from you. Historically, the consumer experience is actually the exception, not b2b. Up until fai…

True, on the other hand scenarios very similar to this do happen in real world consumer retail situations. If any of your friends work in retail show them this video and ask if they have any stories about customers.

Re: If people tried to pay for other services like they try to pay for programming

#32

Post by daniel-cussen »

softbuilder wrote: post #13
noonespecial wrote: post #4

There are two angles at play that got a little mixed together in the video. The first is the hard bargain during initial negotiations (ala the CD for much less) the second (and much uglier) is the restaurant, where after the work is done the client flat refuses to pay. I'm fine with the former, you get what you pay for, the latter however, really makes me mad.

The difference is that a CD is a commodity. People are not. Certainly there is a marketplace at work, but even if you do view programmers or designers as commoditized, no one wants to be treated that way. It's ugly behavior. (Although in my experience that is usually ignorance, not malice.)

I'd be fine with being treated like a commodity as long as that commodity is a type of bullion.

I find that the term "commoditized" refers to goods or services that one, are all identical and b) are really, really cheap, like most commodities in the late 90s.

Re: If people tried to pay for other services like they try to pay for programming

#33

Post by zmonkeyz »

netcan wrote: post #6

Funny. Now I want to see a comeback video from the clients' perspective. Cutting edge meat, still some bugs being ironed out but totally worth it if you avoid that whole beef mess. A weird disc with wires attaching it to a projector that that you can put in the dvd player and it plays the projector reels, sort of. When the hair's half cut, a grey hair is discovered. Now it's on track to be finished by Christmas.

The gray hair scene would be funny :)

Re: If people tried to pay for other services like they try to pay for programming

#35

Post by detst »

mantas wrote: post #10

Been there, had most of those (and many other similar) situations.. The worst customer experience... Once a guy called me and asked for a quote. I told I prefer hourly rate * hours worked and explained why it's better for him. He called me crazy and insisted on fixed quote, although he wasn't even sure what he exactly wants. I did fast calculation in my mind and gave him a rough quote. I was bargaining at that time a…

So is it time to go 5-6x?

Re: If people tried to pay for other services like they try to pay for programming

#36

Post by edw519 »

It's war, I tell ya!

The video should play the first 10 minutes and then display a dialog box prompting for a credit card in order to update to "Premium" (which would just make the dialog box go away).

The hairdresser should color her hair purple, but once she paid the bill, it would magically turn blond at 3 a.m. via Microcolor Automatic Update.

The chef should electronically disable the steak-embedded Exlax dispenser once the bill was paid in full.

oops, just in case...

Re: If people tried to pay for other services like they try to pay for programming

#37

Post by nfriedly »

mantas wrote: post #10

Been there, had most of those (and many other similar) situations.. The worst customer experience... Once a guy called me and asked for a quote. I told I prefer hourly rate * hours worked and explained why it's better for him. He called me crazy and insisted on fixed quote, although he wasn't even sure what he exactly wants. I did fast calculation in my mind and gave him a rough quote. I was bargaining at that time a…

Back when I was contracting, I knew it was time to raise my rates if I hadn't been told I was too expensive recently.

Re: If people tried to pay for other services like they try to pay for programming

#38

Post by foresterh »

mgkimsal wrote: post #8
foresterh wrote: post #3

Am I a rare contractor because I haven't had problems with people paying up? Is that common in the software contracting world? Or is it the case (as it is with most things in this world) that the people with problems also have the loudest voice, or tend to make the most noise, so it seems to be an issue more than it is?

You may be rare, or haven't done much yet. I've been in software dev in some capacity for about 17 years, and have been stiffed myself a couple of times, and I've had companies I've worked for been stiffed too. In some cases it was for a lot of money, in some cases very little. If it hasn't happened yet, it probably will at some point. It's not guaranteed, but I don't think I know anyone that's been at this for more…

True, I've only been doing contract for 2 years, and it's only been hourly. Nobody's been late on the first (or any) monthly payment, so I've never had to worry about it. I'm assuming the problem is more with project-based pay? Which I'm afraid to take on (for these very reasons...)

Re: If people tried to pay for other services like they try to pay for programming

#40

Post by vishaldpatel »

kls wrote: post #24
trotsky wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does go both ways, though. I'm a software developer/consultant and am sympathetic to the video but lets look at from the other side. Most pro level consulting teams work open ended time and materials contracts. There's very good reasons for this, but this definitely gets abused to deliver a project that was never expected to come in on budget. It also exposes the client to the effects of bad management or other in…

It sounds to me like the creator of the video probably does fixed price bidding, at least in part. In my experience that's never a good idea or worth doing - even if you can manage it OK (extremely unlikely) you end up alienating the customer by having to be so anal about scope creep. I whole heartily agree with your summation. Fixed price just sets it off on the wrong foot in the first place. What I generally do, is…

They'd have to agree that your bottom dollar rate is reasonable and that you can easily make your top dollar by spending that time elsewhere.
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