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Justice Department Is Preparing Antitrust Investigation of Google

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Re: Justice Department Is Preparing Antitrust Investigation of Google

#291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Notice that no Googlers have a good response to this or the Eric Schmidt / Hillary Clinton connection. Google’s ties to the Obama administration were deep.

Which raises deep suspicions about the political motivations of this "investigation". Anti-trust is about companies using their market power to exclude rivals, raise prices, and hurt consumers. It's not about consumers overwhelmingly choosing a product because they like it more. Can anyone really say that Google's practices are more anti-competitive than, say, the dominant players in broadband or health insurance or…

> It's not about consumers overwhelmingly choosing a product because they like it more.

And that's not what the charges are about either. You're making it way too simplistic. Google has been involved in actual anti-competitive actions, for which they've already been found guilty in Europe that had nothing to do with "users liking their service more" - Google actually downranked competition in the search engine, and other stuff like that.

There even was a story a while ago on HN about ProtonMail being essentially shadowbanned from Google search for the term "encrypted email" for a year before they made a big scandal about it and Google "admitted its error" (the same bullshit excuse Facebook uses every time it's caught tracking users in a new and more nefarious way).

Also, I can't be bothered to look for a link now, but there is a good story out there about how Google killed a map competitor in the US around that time, too (Skyhook was it?). Once again - nothing to do with "users liking Google's maps more" -- Google took real action to prevent a competitor from existing in the market place.

It's also a super-duper coincidence that Eric Schmidt started working for the Pentagon, while also remaining on Google's board and some kind of technical executive, too, not long before Google started working with the Pentagon on Project Maven.

Either people don't want to admit what's happening or they are being way too naive when they see all of this and think it's "nothing but a coincidence". It was well known that Schmidt was one of Obama's besties at the time. And Google is ranking very high in its lobbying efforts, too.

Re: Justice Department Is Preparing Antitrust Investigation of Google

#292

I was the biggest Google fan ever. I recommended all their products to everyone I know. Gone are those days. I now trust Microsoft (heh! M!cr0$0ft, anyone?) more than Google which is strange given I grew up rebelling against MS’s technical desktop hegemony. I wonder when Google decided “doing evil” was okay. I wonder how the SWE’s and other senior people in this thread feel about working for a company that many now c…

> After years of serving malware through ads and doing nothing to stop it,

I occasionally see articles to that effect. But I have never been effected by such malware. And that includes 20+ years on the web, including the seedier corners, and without ever taking special measures like anti-virus.

As far as I can tell, this 'ad-distributed malware' are a few cases far between, completely blown out of proportions to justify peoples' use of ad blockers.

Re: Justice Department Is Preparing Antitrust Investigation of Google

#293
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Collects money, yes. But collects more data? I'm dubious.

Everyone who uses AWS essentially gives data signals to Amazon. As they're by far the biggest cloud provider, that's a lot of data. Add that to their physical goods store, their shipping, their payments, their music store, their player apps, their subscription data, their identity and payment data. Amazon's looking at getting into the consumer communications business too. If I were a bad person asking, "Who's more va…

The idea that data stored on AWS is equal to data collected by Amazon is ludicrous. There are contracts and laws to govern such relationships. Hundreds of people inside Amazon would know about it, and any one of them could expose them to existentially threatening lawsuits whenever they are even slightly upset with their employer.

Re: Justice Department Is Preparing Antitrust Investigation of Google

#294

Questions from someone who doesn't know a lot about antitrust law, in case someone knowledgeable cares to chime in: To what extent does antitrust law require specific intentional or knowing conduct? Is there some "knew or should have known" standard that would require Google to explain why they didn't anticipate or investigate some suspiciously favorable placement of Google products/services/affiliates? Or can Google…

This is civil law. It's not about any sort of moral failings, and therefore intent is rather unimportant.

Re: Justice Department Is Preparing Antitrust Investigation of Google

#295
post #231
post #82

Look, I get it — the issues with Google, Facebook, Amazon. But I can’t help but think about how AT&T and other ISPs banded together to claim they shouldn’t be regulated because they are Internet companies just like FANG during the Net Neutrality discussions. When I see just how bad ISPs are acting, in lack of competition, price gouging, content ownership, data monitoring, it really seems they were successful in shift…

The news can only focus on one major company at a time, but the courts can go after all of them.

There can be very real bandwidth limitations at the government regulatory agencies, however.

Re: Justice Department Is Preparing Antitrust Investigation of Google

#296
post #82

Look, I get it — the issues with Google, Facebook, Amazon. But I can’t help but think about how AT&T and other ISPs banded together to claim they shouldn’t be regulated because they are Internet companies just like FANG during the Net Neutrality discussions. When I see just how bad ISPs are acting, in lack of competition, price gouging, content ownership, data monitoring, it really seems they were successful in shift…

[deleted]

Re: Justice Department Is Preparing Antitrust Investigation of Google

#297

I think the slowly most businesses would realize if you are a big company, it makes much more sense to capture exclusively the high end market (iPhone) and try to stay as much away as possible from the low end market. This gives you a lion's share of the profits, while making sure you don't get labelled a monopoly (and people asking you to make your platform open). This is the exact model of Apple. iPhones dominate t…

Its an interesting take on things. Other view is that Apple is an abusive monopoly any is getting away with it for the same reasons Google is. America is permitting Monolpolies at the moment because it is scared of China. Presumably the US has doubts that capitalism is best and is betting on state supported Monoplies. ;)

i don’t understand how Apple is an “abusive monopoly” when their iphone market share is 15.8%, while samsung is at 17.3%.

was your characterisation related to their app store by any chance?

Re: Justice Department Is Preparing Antitrust Investigation of Google

#298
With Eric Schmidt leaving, the hanging sword has finally came down. He knew how to play lobbyist network in DC even with unfavorable administration if you had almost unlimited money supply. Breitbart publishing recent video leaks on Google execs in tears on election results meant this was inevitable.

Google has LOT to lose from this. They had previously made absurd the argument that they are not monopoly and Amazon is their biggest competition. Somehow lobby money made this argument magically acceptable and everybody moved on. Now they would have charges from Yelp, funding services like gmail using search business to bankrupt other players, making arbitrary decisions for advertisers, youtube piracy, website takedowns and de-rankings, Chrome defaults, AMP...

However, I wonder what could be the end game here for the government? Google is still very monolithic as far as revenues are concerned, so how do you even break it up in any viable way? My guess is that they would probably impose some fine and settlement agreement.

Re: Justice Department Is Preparing Antitrust Investigation of Google

#299

I was the biggest Google fan ever. I recommended all their products to everyone I know. Gone are those days. I now trust Microsoft (heh! M!cr0$0ft, anyone?) more than Google which is strange given I grew up rebelling against MS’s technical desktop hegemony. I wonder when Google decided “doing evil” was okay. I wonder how the SWE’s and other senior people in this thread feel about working for a company that many now c…

> I now trust Microsoft more than Google

What's so good about Microsoft? They filled their OS with spyware and adware and they seem to be incompetent as a tech company - remember their recent Windows update that deleted user data even though early testers have reported the issue.

Re: Justice Department Is Preparing Antitrust Investigation of Google

#300
post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reality was a bit different from what you describe. Firefox was a thing. Its market share was rising slowly but steadily. Google paid leading Firefox engineers such as Ben Goodger and Darin Fisher. It could have doubled down, improved Firefox's performance, marketed it aggressively, and then your narrative would make sense. Instead they pulled the engineers to create Chrome. There was no need at all for that except t…

Why pay to develop some other company's product when you can just develop it yourself? Nobody would do that. Also when Chrome was released IE still had a 60% market share. You can't ignore that.

That nobody would do that is contradicted by the fact that Google did it for years, for instance. But Google ended up doing what most for-profit corporations would do. I'm not saying it's particularly immoral. It's pretty normal, for better or worse. What I am saying is that the narrative that Google created Chrome only to further the Web does not add up.

Also, I was not ignoring that IE had 60% market share. That's perfectly in line with what I said, as that market share was in fact shrinking without Chrome.

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