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Justice Department Is Preparing Antitrust Investigation of Google

wsj.com

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Re: Justice Department Is Preparing Antitrust Investigation of Google

#251

Post by bduerst »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #113
ReverseCold wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe not more data, but perhaps more important data? "Things you've bought before or looked into buying before" seems like much more useful data to sell ads than "non-shopping things you've searched for." It's definitely a higher signal to noise ratio.

If your Amazon receipts go to Gmail, Google collects not just all of that data, but from every other site you've bought stuff from: https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/17/google-gmail-tracks-purchase...

Google stopped mining Gmail two years ago:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/23/technology/gmail-ads.html

Any aggregation or segmentation of emails by ML/AI algorithms, as your article talks about, is analogous to having smarter filters in your inbox. It's tech illiteracy to confuse these perception NNs with data mining for business purposes.

Re: Justice Department Is Preparing Antitrust Investigation of Google

#252

Post by eftychis »

fyoving wrote: post #110
eftychis wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the first amendment here does not seem to apply, except if the poster above, has something else in mind? That DOJ even considers going to court, hints that they have a strong case -- given how conservative the DOJ is to betting on a court case and not settling.

No one is reporting that the DOJ is considering going to court nor that they have any "case" let alone a "strong" one if the WSJ reports are to be believed it's very preliminary stuff.

Thank you for the correction!

Re: Justice Department Is Preparing Antitrust Investigation of Google

#253

Post by jldugger »

ehsankia wrote: post #159
KirinDave wrote: post #71

Distressingly absent from this list is the company that cheerfully collects and sells even more data that Google about the average American's life and collects MUCH more of their money: Amazon.

What they do with Amazon basics is ripe for antitrust. Using purchase data to find profitable products, and making a basic version of it which they then rank at the top.

Is Amazon Basics any different than any other store brand? It's not like national retailers before amazon were just throwing darts at a printout of their catalog.

Re: Justice Department Is Preparing Antitrust Investigation of Google

#254

Post by mjevans »

cycrutchfield wrote: post #194
mjevans wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're jumping to a conclusion with that phrasing. It's very likely they happened to also volunteer (or maybe be hired by) the campaign WHILE also happening to be employed by Google.

And Google would allow their employees to build IP for a particular political campaign? That is, they would waive their rights to the IP produced by their employees for the specific benefit of a particular candidate? That seems unlikely.

I am not the slave of anyone or anything. What I do on my own time is my own thing.

Re: Justice Department Is Preparing Antitrust Investigation of Google

#255

Post by IshKebab »

SomeOldThrow wrote: post #195
dmix wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[citation needed]

Err, is there another reason for chrome to exist? Google is no philanthropist.

Yes, because before Chrome existed most people used IE which is very slow to create or adopt new web standards and is full of bugs. That makes developing complex websites really difficult.

What company do we know that makes some the most complex web sites out there and would really benefit if the web had... I dunno WebGL so they could make a smooth mapping site, maybe with a 3D mode. Or a new version of HTTP so their sites load faster. Or a new version of TCP that works better on mobile. Or native web components that makes their web framework faster. Or HTML video so their video streaming site is more reliable.

I'll give you a hint - it starts with "Googl".

They created Chrome because IE was holding them back. Not to kill as blockers (did IE ever even support as blockers). Some people here don't use their brains...

Re: Justice Department Is Preparing Antitrust Investigation of Google

#256

Post by blub »

summerlight wrote: post #112
aleister_777 wrote: post #13

Good. To quote an old friend who worked for Google: "I'm worried that if the rest of America knew what we were actually doing here they would literally come here and kill us..."

Interesting. I work for Google as well and I have a somehow opposite opinion here. Working here means you gotta fight through extremely complicated, thorough (and sometime bureaucratic) privacy, security and legal reviews by daily basis. Those teams have a real power to block any launches they don't like; Google give them the power not because of good-will but it's more about decreasing a risk of significant revenue…

"You got a fancy design which may give you a big revenue boost at the cost of compromising user privacy or legal risks? Good luck with upcoming privacy and/or legal review sessions; they don't care about your product since they have no motivation to do that."

From the outside, it's doubtful that this team exists at all. Or if they do, they must watch YouTube all day instead of doing their jobs, because Google is getting better and better at compromising privacy, thanks to fancy designs/dark patterns: https://www.forbrukerradet.no/undersokelse/2018/every-step-y...

It looks to me like you have no clue what your own company's doing but hurry nevertheless to defend them.

Re: Justice Department Is Preparing Antitrust Investigation of Google

#257

Post by Pimpus »

BurningFrog wrote: post #208
panarky wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which raises deep suspicions about the political motivations of this "investigation". Anti-trust is about companies using their market power to exclude rivals, raise prices, and hurt consumers. It's not about consumers overwhelmingly choosing a product because they like it more. Can anyone really say that Google's practices are more anti-competitive than, say, the dominant players in broadband or health insurance or…

This is a bold take! Google's close ties with the Obama administration makes the Trump administration suspicious!

[flagged]

Re: Justice Department Is Preparing Antitrust Investigation of Google

#258

Post by eitland »

averros wrote: post #239
rayiner wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ll note for the audience that such meetings are common for many types of prosecutions, even for relatively low level criminal ones. If you’ve every watched a TV show about a murder investigation, you know the police will talk to you and get your statement before they arrest you. The SEC will also send a “we’re thinking of suing you” letter (Wells notice), where you can respond with a PowerPoint presentation of “why…

TV shows are notoriously bad sources of information about the real world. In the real world if the police has anything solid which they believe points at you as the perp, they will arrest you first (possibly after watching you for a while). Extracting information from you is so much easier when you are intimidated and fearful - as anyone would be after marinating for a few days in a cell. Talking to the police before…

rayiner is a notoriously good source of information.

He is also a laywer, see his profile: https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=rayiner

Re: Justice Department Is Preparing Antitrust Investigation of Google

#259

Post by cycrutchfield »

mjevans wrote: post #254
cycrutchfield wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And Google would allow their employees to build IP for a particular political campaign? That is, they would waive their rights to the IP produced by their employees for the specific benefit of a particular candidate? That seems unlikely.

I am not the slave of anyone or anything. What I do on my own time is my own thing.

That’s nice that you believe that. If you have a job, maybe read your employment contract first next time.

Re: Justice Department Is Preparing Antitrust Investigation of Google

#260

Post by dao- »

IshKebab wrote: post #255
SomeOldThrow wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Err, is there another reason for chrome to exist? Google is no philanthropist.

Yes, because before Chrome existed most people used IE which is very slow to create or adopt new web standards and is full of bugs. That makes developing complex websites really difficult. What company do we know that makes some the most complex web sites out there and would really benefit if the web had... I dunno WebGL so they could make a smooth mapping site, maybe with a 3D mode. Or a new version of HTTP so their…

Reality was a bit different from what you describe. Firefox was a thing. Its market share was rising slowly but steadily. Google paid leading Firefox engineers such as Ben Goodger and Darin Fisher. It could have doubled down, improved Firefox's performance, marketed it aggressively, and then your narrative would make sense. Instead they pulled the engineers to create Chrome. There was no need at all for that except that Google wanted more direct control over the Internet which the nonprofit Mozilla Foundation ultimately wouldn't give them.
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