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Justice Department Is Preparing Antitrust Investigation of Google

wsj.com

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Re: Justice Department Is Preparing Antitrust Investigation of Google

#101

Post by eftychis »

glbrew wrote: post #91
fyoving wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People don't seem to understand how this stuff works in the US, Google has full editorial control over their search results protected by the first amendment and that right was affirmed in court time and time again: https://searchengineland.com/another-court-affirms-googles-f... If you don't like their free no lock in service go elsewhere, and that's why there is no sherman act case here, which is why if the DOJ actua…

I'm not a lawyer but the first amendment argument is a separate concern than antitrust violations. You can exercise your first amendment rights while still breaching antitrust law.

Yes, the first amendment here does not seem to apply, except if the poster above, has something else in mind? That DOJ even considers going to court, hints that they have a strong case -- given how conservative the DOJ is to betting on a court case and not settling.

Re: Justice Department Is Preparing Antitrust Investigation of Google

#102

Post by dredmorbius »

joseph298 wrote: post #62
Despegar wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This WSJ story has details about the FTC recommendation to sue Google (overruled by the commissioners at the time). They accidentally sent the WSJ every other page in a botched FOIA request. https://www.wsj.com/articles/inside-the-u-s-antitrust-probe-...

How do I read it? Do I have to subscribe?

Archive.is / archive.fo generally works.

Re: Justice Department Is Preparing Antitrust Investigation of Google

#103

Post by JoshMnem »

Jach wrote: post #85
rayiner wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any antitrust theory against Google would be pretty abstract given that they don’t charge for either search or Chrome. But the pop up trying to get you to switch to Chrome when you go to Google search is pretty much what you’d put in a textbook to illustrate leveraging a monopoly in one sector to gain market share in another. It’s extremely concrete and intuitive. That doesn’t mean it makes the case, of course. But i…

Can you post a screenshot of this popup? Never seen it in years of Firefox use and lots of Google searching. Maybe one of my plugins blocks it.

It was an annoying popup for years. I don't see it now when I search, but I've seen it recently.

It looks like they also make other browsers pay for ads while they post their own ads for "Google's Official Browser" at no cost:

https://imgur.com/a/exzor1l

Re: Justice Department Is Preparing Antitrust Investigation of Google

#104

Post by fyoving »

monocasa wrote: post #97
fyoving wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's one interpretation by interested parties another would be that enforcement lawyers are always aggressive and those who make the decision in the end would have to weigh the odds of winning in court and unanimously they decides not. Regardless, the FTC would have had a much better chance than the DOJ as they have specific broad powers more suitable to this case.

Google was also very positively connected to the Obama administration. It was some googlers that stepped in and turned around healthcare.gov for instance. I've heard a lot of rumors that they gave a lot of data access to the campaigns too.

I don't know about data accesse rumors but the fact that a bunch of Googlers did government work during the Obama years is well documented, that said the FTC is an independent agency with commissioners from both parties and they unanimously voted against going to court.

Re: Justice Department Is Preparing Antitrust Investigation of Google

#105

Post by neonate »

joseph298 wrote: post #62
Despegar wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This WSJ story has details about the FTC recommendation to sue Google (overruled by the commissioners at the time). They accidentally sent the WSJ every other page in a botched FOIA request. https://www.wsj.com/articles/inside-the-u-s-antitrust-probe-...

How do I read it? Do I have to subscribe?

http://archive.is/TsG4K

Re: Justice Department Is Preparing Antitrust Investigation of Google

#106

Post by Spivak »

jeffk_teh_haxor wrote: post #94
rayiner wrote: post #33

While I think an antitrust suit against Google would be a waste of time, they really need to stop recommending Chrome every time you do a Google search with a different browser. Just stop, that will not play well to a jury.

Shrug. Windows 10 keeps nudging me to use Edge.

Ha! Nudging is an understatement.

* If you type Chrome into Bing you'll get a full page ad urging you not to switch.

* If you try to switch to use Chrome as your default browser it will ask you if you're really sure and you have to click the tiny text to actually switch.

* Edge and Windows 10 will send you notifications about Edge being the recommended browser and it's speed/security/whatever.

* If you install Adobe Reader and check "set as my default PDF reader" Windows 10 will send you a notification saying that "there's something wrong with your default reader app" and set it back to Edge.

* In the start menu Edge gets special treatment by having flavor text that says it's the Microsoft recommended browser.

* You have to use 3rd pary hacks to get the start menu search to use anything other than Edge & Bing.

* Microsoft teated a feature on insider builds which intercepted the installers for Chrome and Firefox and displayed a pop-up asking them to use Edge instead.

* Before they got backlash for it, once you switched your default browser to something not Edge Windows would open up your new browser to an ad for Edge.

Re: Justice Department Is Preparing Antitrust Investigation of Google

#107

Post by ocdtrekkie »

monocasa wrote: post #97
fyoving wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's one interpretation by interested parties another would be that enforcement lawyers are always aggressive and those who make the decision in the end would have to weigh the odds of winning in court and unanimously they decides not. Regardless, the FTC would have had a much better chance than the DOJ as they have specific broad powers more suitable to this case.

Google was also very positively connected to the Obama administration. It was some googlers that stepped in and turned around healthcare.gov for instance. I've heard a lot of rumors that they gave a lot of data access to the campaigns too.

Not only is the amount of revolving door between Google and the Obama administration well documented, but Eric Schmidt was literally part of Hillary's campaign staff and personally funded a company to provide her campaign's development and infrastructure.

Suffice to say, they have a lot less allies in DC this year, and even Democrats are starting to look negatively on them now.

Re: Justice Department Is Preparing Antitrust Investigation of Google

#108

Post by dang »

sockpuppet999 wrote: post #43
asdfasgasdgasdg wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a Googler, that's a sentiment I have never heard expressed, nor have I felt anything even remotely like it myself. My guess would be that most people would feel a lot better about the company if they could see how the sausage gets made. At least, judging by the reactions of my family members when they ask me concerned questions and I explain how things work, that's what would happen. That being said, it will be in…

It's not how the sausage is made that matters. The sausage is making ppl sick. I have no doubt you in your siloed Dev team know very little about what exactly is happening with your final products. We outside of your bubble are growing tired of your superiors growth at ANY cost company policies. Take heed bro. Time is getting kind of short. The surveillance economy is gonna bust. I'm gonna help break it- Any way I ca…

Please don't post like this here.

Re: Justice Department Is Preparing Antitrust Investigation of Google

#109

Post by asr »

0xcde4c3db wrote: post #34

Questions from someone who doesn't know a lot about antitrust law, in case someone knowledgeable cares to chime in: To what extent does antitrust law require specific intentional or knowing conduct? Is there some "knew or should have known" standard that would require Google to explain why they didn't anticipate or investigate some suspiciously favorable placement of Google products/services/affiliates? Or can Google…

Monopolization requires anticompetitive conduct. To prove this, intent evidence is often helpful. For example, in the recent Qualcomm case the judge cited evidence that Qualcomm executives knew their business model created antitrust risk.

But intent evidence is not required. A corporation doesn't have a state of mind. Also, wanting to beat your competitors is fine (and good). So it's tricky to distinguish bad intent from good intent.

Re: Justice Department Is Preparing Antitrust Investigation of Google

#110

Post by fyoving »

eftychis wrote: post #101
glbrew wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not a lawyer but the first amendment argument is a separate concern than antitrust violations. You can exercise your first amendment rights while still breaching antitrust law.

Yes, the first amendment here does not seem to apply, except if the poster above, has something else in mind? That DOJ even considers going to court, hints that they have a strong case -- given how conservative the DOJ is to betting on a court case and not settling.

No one is reporting that the DOJ is considering going to court nor that they have any "case" let alone a "strong" one if the WSJ reports are to be believed it's very preliminary stuff.
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