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Betrayed by an app she had never heard of

privacyinternational.org

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Re: Betrayed by an app she had never heard of

#231

Post by enitihas »

enitihas wrote: post #103
abtom wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're a non-user and do not wish your information to appear on the app, you can unlist your number here - https://www.truecaller.com/unlisting Though I do not agree with the method where as a non-user I need to manually opt-out of the service, it does seem to work. My number is no longer visible on the app.

I tried using the unlisting UI, but it says I need to install the app and deactivate my account before unlisting. When I install the app, it refuses to run unless I grant it all sorts of permissions. So it seems before unlisting, I need to give truecaller my data. This absolutely ridiculous.

I was finally able to unlist successfully by installing truecaller on my iPad where it didn't ask for any permissions forcefully, deactivating my account, and then unlisting. Previously I was using my android phone.

Re: Betrayed by an app she had never heard of

#232

Post by wtmt »

tomp wrote: post #136
Piskvorrr wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(X) No one will be able to find the guy or collect the money Where does the $10 come from? (Who pays it? Who collects it?) Also, you just invoked a Cobra Effect. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobra_effect

Users collect $10 from their network operator by filling a claim in an online form. Burden of proof on the network operator to prove it wasn't a spam call (e.g. originated from a known number, lasted more than some number of minutes, metadata indicates that it was a two-way conversation, etc.). Huge fines if users complain to the regulator that any of the above isn't true.

This would be difficult to write as a law and very difficult to enforce, though I like the idea of the burden of proof being on the operator.

In India we have a national DND (Do Not Disturb) registry that anyone can signup for and choose whether to receive marketing communications or not, and what categories therein. The regulator has made the operators enforce the reporting mechanism along with penalties (monetary and otherwise) on the marketers for violations. But still, there are cases where a marketer may claim that the person receiving the call/SMS opted for it and signed up or had some transactional relationship with the company.

Re: Betrayed by an app she had never heard of

#233

Post by wtmt »

bscphil wrote: post #147
skizo wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you can unlist your number here - https://www.truecaller.com/unlisting

This didn't work for me the first three times I tried. It said I had to log into the app and deactivate my account (which of course I can't do because I don't have an account). It eventually claims to have worked on the fourth try, but I have no way of checking because it doesn't let you look up numbers without being logged in.

You can login to the website using a throwaway or junk Gmail account, give the website access to your Gmail contacts (which is zero), and then lookup any number.

Re: Betrayed by an app she had never heard of

#234

Post by wtmt »

sriram_malhar wrote: post #15
tsjq wrote: post #11

once I unlist my number from truecaller website (never installed / used their mobile app), would it stop new people from adding my number to their database? ie, I unlist in May2019. i give my number to a new contact of mine in Aug2019. and they use truecaller. would that re-add my name to trucaller database, or would my number stay unlisted forever no matter how many new contacts save my number in their phones with t…

no. it does not remember you delisted, so you will be added again :(

That’s not how it works. Or maybe you encountered a bug. Unlisting is permanent unless you install the app and activate your number to be listed again.

Re: Betrayed by an app she had never heard of

#235

Post by wtmt »

mesaframe wrote: post #51

Regarding India, They now have privacy as a right. Shouldn't they enforce it?

Privacy was declared by the Indian Supreme Court as a fundamental right found within some articles of the constitution. However, till date, there is no data privacy law proposed and passed in the parliament. The draft proposal that was prepared more than a year ago was criticized by many. There will likely be a half baked data privacy law that will be passed in the coming months (since the elections are done and the new government has taken office).

Taking action on such violations today can only be done within the scope of existing laws on fraud, security, etc. That won’t work very well for these cases. The Indian Supreme Court also doesn’t understand technology and doesn’t rely on experts. It seems to go by whoever talks the loudest (based on the hearings in the case against the biometric based unique ID, called Aadhaar).

Re: Betrayed by an app she had never heard of

#236

Post by scraft »

For me, the benefits of Truecaller outweigh the negatives. It was a step towards my phone being useable again for the purpose of making and receiving calls (at times I seem to get flurries of spam calls so it is great being able to simple ignore).

For the last 18 months my phone is on silent, no vibration, so I am completely oblivious to whether someone is contacting me. When I check my phone I catch up with any missed activity. It is hard to explain just how much better it is to operate this way.

Re: Betrayed by an app she had never heard of

#237

Post by albedoa »

Piskvorrr wrote: post #225
albedoa wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Who pays it? Who collects it? My only guess is that you misunderstand what is being proposed. The spammer is not part of the transaction.

In which case, how in the world will anyone sane consent to "I didn't like this call - prove me wrong or give me $10"? (Yes, yes, make a law, I got that. Good luck getting that passed.)

This thread is not about a voluntary payment, and we don’t typically get to choose which laws we consent to. So I don’t know what you are asking.

Re: Betrayed by an app she had never heard of

#238

Post by MiddleEndian »

sterwill wrote: post #179
neilalexander wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At some point those VoIP servers connect to PSTN. Someone is responsible for that.

The non-spammy network operators that interconnect to the spammy network operators make money through that interconnection. If you want them to disconnect their spammy customers, you have to convince them that it's worth it to lose them. This is a manual process and takes time.

This is where infrastructure level legislation comes in. They should be required to provide the full originator information all the way to the people who receive the call, they should block known spammers, they should block other networks that do not do this, and they should be fined heavily if they do not. Otherwise the phone system will become a relic.

Re: Betrayed by an app she had never heard of

#239

Post by MiddleEndian »

ktpsns wrote: post #156
blackbrokkoli wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can somebody enlighten me why robo-calls are such a problem in the US? I'm completely ignorant of any relevant legislation or enforcement, but as a young German I can literally remember exactly two unsolicited survey calls in my whole life, both on a landline. This suggests some fundamental difference compared to the US which maybe should be changed instead of a third party band-aid app with lots of problems, but aga…

Can confirm, being also a (not-that-young-anymore) German. Scam calls or phone marketing is very seldom here. I always assumed this is due to strict laws in Germany. Another thing is also that most people I know no more publish their telephone number in a (public) phone book, as it used to be still common 30 years ago. That's something where you easily can grab tons of private information from. How common are phone b…

Phone books are supposedly common in parts of the US but they do not publish cell phone numbers. It's also illegal to telemarket to a cell phone. Of course, nothing is done when phone providers knowingly forward said illegal phone calls to cell phones anyway.

Re: Betrayed by an app she had never heard of

#240

Post by NikkiA »

astura wrote: post #182
DarkWiiPlayer wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It does not seem unreasonable for a service like TrueCaller to notify people that user-generated information about them is being irrevocably added to a globally public repository. If they live in Europe, as far as I'm aware, they should actually also need the users consent if the information contains anything like a name (which it most likely does) and a way for users to have their personal data erased permanently.…

This data is like Wikipedia. Does every Wikipedia entry about a person in Europe need that person's permission before it can be published? Can I make Wikipedia delete my Wikipedia page permanently with no way for anyone to ever to recreate it? What about a blog post? If a write about a friend of mine doing something on my blog, do I need my friend's written permission before I can post? I'm guessing that this answer…

Wikipedia will, and have, remove(d) pages about people who ask them to remove it.
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