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Abuses show Assange case was never about law

jonathan-cook.net

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Re: Abuses show Assange case was never about law

#141

Post by tomp »

nutjob2 wrote: post #88
cheeseomlit wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Doing the Russians' bidding by enabling their interference in the US presidential election How specifically did he do this? Publishing 'Collateral Murder' embarrassed a lot of people in Washington and probably affected elections afterwards, yet I never heard anyone make these accusations back then. And this hysteria about Russia over 40k worth of Facebook ads and some twitter bots is outrageous, Facebook/Twitters po…

Releasing emails from the DNC is one thing, but releasing them with timing especially to have maximum political impact against one candidate is another thing entirely.

Timing the release of relevant information for maximum impact is exactly what any self-respecting media organisation should do.

Your statement only makes sense if Wikileaks had similar information regarding the Trump (edit: or other conservative) campaign and refused to release it.

Re: Abuses show Assange case was never about law

#142

Post by deogeo »

sbuttgereit wrote: post #139
deogeo wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But there is insufficient evidence to show he didn’t commit any bona fide crimes under U.S. law. Assange is an Australian, currently in the U.K., and was accused of rape in Sweden. We shouldn't let the apparently global reach of U.S. law go unexamined.

So as an American, with an American targeted business (and having never visited the EU), doesn't the EU's GDPR law make the same attempt at global reach should a European decide, unbeknownst to me, to visit my web properties? Or are you suggesting that laws that try to assert such global scope are wrong in general?

That's a good question - if your business has no presence in the EU, then I would think the GDPR is toothless? But yes, I don't like such laws in general.

Although the attempt is certainly not the same, as I don't think you can get extradited for GDPR violations.

Re: Abuses show Assange case was never about law

#143

Post by tomp »

troutwine wrote: post #96
SamReidHughes wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well that's quite a lie you've made here. He didn't sexually assault anybody, it was consensual with a minor.

Consensual sex with a minor isn't by definition. I mean, even the _charges_ say 'sexual assault', so this is not something the GP is inventing out of thin air.

The fact that different countries have different cutoff ages for statutory rape (the girl was 16, whereas some countries set the limit to be as low as 15, in particular most of Europe is 16 or below) makes this much less of a clear cut than your comment implies.

Re: Abuses show Assange case was never about law

#144

Post by saltyfever »

megous wrote: post #129
AnaniasAnanas wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> releasing documents that were partially or entirely forged by the Russian intelligence agencies does make one a Russian puppet The few emails that I checked had a valid dkim signature.

Technically, if you hack a mail server, you'll get access to DKIM private keys. I would only trust these mails DKIM signature if I personally received them prior to the breach. Otherwise it's a very weak proof.

Clinton's people would've come out and said if any of the emails were forged. They didn't.

Re: Abuses show Assange case was never about law

#145

Post by microwavecamera »

YUMad wrote: post #61
duxup wrote: post #18

The whole "didn't flee rape charges" (or some form of that claim as the 'charges' thing hadn't happened at that time IIRC) situation is always odd to me. Sweeden considers espionage a political crime and does not extradite people for political crimes. Sweeden seems like a great place to be if you're wanted for political crimes. Not a great situation in life, but a good place to be for that. The usual theory in respon…

Might not extradite for political crimes, but they straight up let CIA kidnap people from their soil. If Assange was returned to Sweden, he'd be let out on 'house arrest' and he'd just dissapear into the dark one night.

That's not a particularly logical reason. If the CIA was that hell bent on extrajudiciously killing Assange, then he picked a terrible place for protection. The Ecuadorian government is rife with corruption and England is part of the Five Eyes intelligence alliance. The CIA would have had no problem getting to Assange if they really wanted to. He would have been safer in Sweden.

Re: Abuses show Assange case was never about law

#146

Post by nutjob2 »

tomp wrote: post #141
nutjob2 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Releasing emails from the DNC is one thing, but releasing them with timing especially to have maximum political impact against one candidate is another thing entirely.

Timing the release of relevant information for maximum impact is exactly what any self-respecting media organisation should do. Your statement only makes sense if Wikileaks had similar information regarding the Trump (edit: or other conservative) campaign and refused to release it.

You conveniently ignore the "political impact against one candidate" bit.

So your statement only makes sense if you assume that all journalists are trying to influence politics to the benefit of their preferred candidate in their reporting.

Re: Abuses show Assange case was never about law

#147

Post by tomp »

nutjob2 wrote: post #146
tomp wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Timing the release of relevant information for maximum impact is exactly what any self-respecting media organisation should do. Your statement only makes sense if Wikileaks had similar information regarding the Trump (edit: or other conservative) campaign and refused to release it.

You conveniently ignore the "political impact against one candidate" bit. So your statement only makes sense if you assume that all journalists are trying to influence politics to the benefit of their preferred candidate in their reporting.

My point is, unless he also had info on Trump/Republicans, he couldn’t have impacted their campaign. So impact of just one candidate/party was inevitable. Then, optimise for max impact.

Re: Abuses show Assange case was never about law

#148

Post by beojan »

stale2002 wrote: post #133
duxup wrote: post #18

The whole "didn't flee rape charges" (or some form of that claim as the 'charges' thing hadn't happened at that time IIRC) situation is always odd to me. Sweeden considers espionage a political crime and does not extradite people for political crimes. Sweeden seems like a great place to be if you're wanted for political crimes. Not a great situation in life, but a good place to be for that. The usual theory in respon…

If you will notice, Assange is not being extradited to Sweden, he is being extradited to the USA. Or in other words, this fear of being extradited to the US was completely justified, and everyone who thought otherwise was wrong, including you. You are wrong. He is being sent to the US. That proves you wrong, and makes everything you have to say about Sweden incorrect, because he is being sent to the US.

From the UK. Whereas if he had he gone to face trial in Sweden in the first place, he would have to be extradited from Sweden.

Re: Abuses show Assange case was never about law

#149

Post by xeeeeeeeeeeenu »

pjc50 wrote: post #20
jMyles wrote: post #5

> When Assange’s popular recognition fell, and Ecuador’s political incentives changed, the asylum was rescinded. An important side note: this is the why the state always attacks the personality and popularity of activists, and why it's important to defend personalities and people. For example, let me say that, having met Cody Wilson several times and spending several hours with him on a couple of occasions (and moder…

This guy? https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2019/01/texas-indicts-co... It's absolutely routine for basically anyone accused of sexual assault to find a whole bunch of men reporting that they seemed to be a standup guy. That doesn't mean they remain a standup guy when left alone around women.

The girl was 16, which means what he did is perfectly legal in most of Europe.

Re: Abuses show Assange case was never about law

#150

Post by smolder »

cc81 wrote: post #137
YUMad wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) 'Rape' as in he didn't go and test himself for STDs when the woman he had sex with demanded it afterward. 2) Do you think no woman ever made up accusations about being raped? Every black man lynched for 'raping a white woman' really did rape them?

He was accused of two things. One was removing the condom during sex and that is not seen as rape but a lesser charge but the other one, having sex with a sleeping woman without a condom was rape. He is obviously not convicted yet so we don't know how it would hold up but in Sweden if someone is too drunk, sleeping or in a otherwise vulnerable position it is seen as rape. There is some more nuance to it but that is g…

They have a history of doing far fetched things, don't they?
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