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New Insights into Hikikomori – People Who Withdraw from Society for Years on End

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Re: New Insights into Hikikomori – People Who Withdraw from Society for Years on End

#61

Post by [deleted] »

AllegedAlec wrote: post #47
dkersten wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? Sorry, I'm not trying to be argumentative or anything, I'm just trying to understand your point of view. The way I see it is if he's made up his mind, then there are really three possible outcomes by suggesting drugs: 1. best case, he feels better, yay! 2. worst case, it makes him worse, he kills himself, but was going to do so anyway. :( 3. he has an interesting experience before the end. I don't see any ethica…

Because you do not know how the trip will impact him. It could be that he self-harms in a way which only makes things permanently worse. It could be that he hurts others during the trip. There are so many factors which could go badly wrong that it is (in my opinion) unethical to suggest this is a good approach.

[deleted]

Re: New Insights into Hikikomori – People Who Withdraw from Society for Years on End

#62

Post by [deleted] »

dkersten wrote: post #39
AllegedAlec wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ethically: yeah.

Why? Sorry, I'm not trying to be argumentative or anything, I'm just trying to understand your point of view. The way I see it is if he's made up his mind, then there are really three possible outcomes by suggesting drugs: 1. best case, he feels better, yay! 2. worst case, it makes him worse, he kills himself, but was going to do so anyway. :( 3. he has an interesting experience before the end. I don't see any ethica…

[deleted]

Re: New Insights into Hikikomori – People Who Withdraw from Society for Years on End

#63

Post by [deleted] »

AllegedAlec wrote: post #32
vokep wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Take LSD or mushrooms before you go. Not because it will make you no longer be suicidal, but because it is one of the most powerful experiences that you can achieve in this universe. To die without such experience, is incredible tragedy, especially for someone with your perspective. It also may inform you of ways you can optimize your impact on departure, given your reasoning about being a 'weak seed'. But its really…

Telling someone with mental issues to take strong psychotropic drugs for the first time, without anyone to keep an eye of them is one of the most retarded things I've heard in a long time.

[deleted]

Re: New Insights into Hikikomori – People Who Withdraw from Society for Years on End

#64

Post by _ki7l »

dkersten wrote: post #50
AllegedAlec wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because you do not know how the trip will impact him. It could be that he self-harms in a way which only makes things permanently worse. It could be that he hurts others during the trip. There are so many factors which could go badly wrong that it is (in my opinion) unethical to suggest this is a good approach.

Ok, I understand. Thanks! What if they took some precautions, eg someone was with them to make sure that they don't do any harm (to themselves or others)? People generally recommend that one take psychedelics with a sitter, after all. Or is the concern also about their mental state in the coming days/weeks/however long after the trip?

Don't backtrack yourself. The day I took shrooms was the day I understood my place in the grand organism and the true power unto a god that each person has in their potential and the only inhibitor is how willing they are to confront that level of their own power. I only continue to understand myself and those around me, and how to forge my life to its fullest with every instance I take entheogens.

I have very little respect for hand-wringing types like those above. All it does is plant undue anxiety in a mind that could easily be calm waters. I could go so far as to say I loathe them. But I'm trying hard to see this person's point.

Also, I can't believe I'm becoming active after years again to infodump this. But I can only hope the original parent sees it and knows they're not alone.

Edit to be abundantly clear: Entheogens did nothing short of saving my life. And it has since only been an upward trend. To the extent that I hilariously enough stopped coffee after a powerful experience forced me to observe just what such things can do to anxiety and blood pressure and the like. On an intimate level akin to detached observation from outside a lab. Except one's own mind.

Re: New Insights into Hikikomori – People Who Withdraw from Society for Years on End

#65

Post by [deleted] »

vokep wrote: post #15
isnetea wrote: post #3

I’ve cut off all family and friends for a long period of time now, and discontinued my career/work after finally reaching a cynical point of no return a few years ago. My only interactions at this point are with food service workers at the store or coffee shop, or other shopping/errands. Perhaps this is a variant of Hikikomori. In fact, the characteristics of one for me are essentially spot on, except that I’m more o…

Take LSD or mushrooms before you go. Not because it will make you no longer be suicidal, but because it is one of the most powerful experiences that you can achieve in this universe. To die without such experience, is incredible tragedy, especially for someone with your perspective. It also may inform you of ways you can optimize your impact on departure, given your reasoning about being a 'weak seed'. But its really…

[deleted]

Re: New Insights into Hikikomori – People Who Withdraw from Society for Years on End

#66

Post by _ki7l »

willio58 wrote: post #49
AllegedAlec wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because you do not know how the trip will impact him. It could be that he self-harms in a way which only makes things permanently worse. It could be that he hurts others during the trip. There are so many factors which could go badly wrong that it is (in my opinion) unethical to suggest this is a good approach.

If only mentally healthy people took psychedelic drugs, almost nobody would take psychedelic drugs. There is no true answer to who should take them. Even those who seem healthiest among us now could break under the mental strain of these drugs. And those who seem most mentally unhealthy could stand to benefit the most. And to assume that suicidal thoughts equates to someone being dangerous is just as “retarded” as ca…

Thank you, I was going to upvote you and leave it at that. But I can't help but say that listening to hand-wringing busy bodies like the individual above was why I was in a prescription, broken minded hell for 7 years straight before the moment of pure eureka that the entheogenic experience can bring.

They certainly do not help folks like the original poster already prone to anxiety and in need of warm comfort rather than cold cynicism.

I will never understand why people fear that which they do not understand. The more I learn the nature of fear - lies that we tell ourselves and each other - the more I have a distaste for them.

Re: New Insights into Hikikomori – People Who Withdraw from Society for Years on End

#67

Post by isnetea »

isnetea wrote: post #3

I’ve cut off all family and friends for a long period of time now, and discontinued my career/work after finally reaching a cynical point of no return a few years ago. My only interactions at this point are with food service workers at the store or coffee shop, or other shopping/errands. Perhaps this is a variant of Hikikomori. In fact, the characteristics of one for me are essentially spot on, except that I’m more o…

Some opinions from reading responses:

* Referring to someone in the third person while in their (virtual) presence comes across as rude.

* It is incredibly irresponsible to bring up illegal drug use at all.

* Saying someone has “mental issues” who is describing their choice to withdraw and plan suicide long term is always a poor choice of words. It’s counterproductive at best, and destructive at worst. If you’re going to summarize someone’s problems in this case, perhaps “consciously chosen socially maladaptive behavior” is a better euphemism.

To these opinions, did you think maybe I (or someone in this case like me) just decided long ago that I don’t like getting picked on? Ever think an algorithm can be a far worse bully than a scumbag teenager telling a classmate explicitly to kill themselves? Ever think that people try to hurt others and drive them to suicide intentionally with the intent on getting away with it? Ever see what scumbags on reddit or dark parts of the internet can do to a person behind their back? Ever think that you don’t know shit, and that you’re assuming I haven’t touched the universe long ago with your precious lysergic spiritual dimethyl horse tranquilizer bullshit?

You want to summarize “him” as having “mental issues”, fine. But you have a long way to go towards understanding the truth about the extent to which it’s possible to pick on a person to the point where they are worn down to a little nub, and simply give up.

The only reason I’m disclosing this is to help the species deal with people like me. I’m not seeking your advice or help, as stated. Some people have thick skins or learn to grow one. I never wanted to grow a thick skin. I wanted to die from before age 10 and I gave up then after considering the mechanisms of humanity. Hopefully the decades of data that I’ve generated since then will be a useful towards improving how people treat each other — via responsible use of technology.

Again, I don’t like this species and I don’t like being alive. Take that as you will. All will be revealed to a grand AI sooner or later, largely affected by the extent of non post quantum pcaps being quietly stashed away at an exponentially growing rate.

Re: New Insights into Hikikomori – People Who Withdraw from Society for Years on End

#68

Post by dkersten »

_ki7l wrote: post #64
dkersten wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, I understand. Thanks! What if they took some precautions, eg someone was with them to make sure that they don't do any harm (to themselves or others)? People generally recommend that one take psychedelics with a sitter, after all. Or is the concern also about their mental state in the coming days/weeks/however long after the trip?

Don't backtrack yourself. The day I took shrooms was the day I understood my place in the grand organism and the true power unto a god that each person has in their potential and the only inhibitor is how willing they are to confront that level of their own power. I only continue to understand myself and those around me, and how to forge my life to its fullest with every instance I take entheogens. I have very little…

Oh, I’m not backtracking. I personally don’t have any issues with it, I was just trying to understand where AlegedAlec draws the line.

I’ve personally been what some people might call “careless” with drugs in the past, in that I maybe wasn’t the most mentally stable and I’ve taken drugs when others would have warned me not to (eg while depressed) and I personally feel like they helped me through it. Ketamine especially has made a huge difference, even in very small doses, although in large doses it gave me this overwhelming and lasting sense of connectedness with the world. Since I spent a lot of my life struggling with loneliness (and not for lack of friends or people around me), that really really helped me.

I’m glad to hear that you are doing better too!

Re: New Insights into Hikikomori – People Who Withdraw from Society for Years on End

#69

Post by DanBC »

_ki7l wrote: post #64
dkersten wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, I understand. Thanks! What if they took some precautions, eg someone was with them to make sure that they don't do any harm (to themselves or others)? People generally recommend that one take psychedelics with a sitter, after all. Or is the concern also about their mental state in the coming days/weeks/however long after the trip?

Don't backtrack yourself. The day I took shrooms was the day I understood my place in the grand organism and the true power unto a god that each person has in their potential and the only inhibitor is how willing they are to confront that level of their own power. I only continue to understand myself and those around me, and how to forge my life to its fullest with every instance I take entheogens. I have very little…

This is literally survivorship bias.

The people who were suicidal and who took psycadelics that didn't work for them can't comment here. They're dead.

Re: New Insights into Hikikomori – People Who Withdraw from Society for Years on End

#70

Post by lagg »

DanBC wrote: post #69
_ki7l wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't backtrack yourself. The day I took shrooms was the day I understood my place in the grand organism and the true power unto a god that each person has in their potential and the only inhibitor is how willing they are to confront that level of their own power. I only continue to understand myself and those around me, and how to forge my life to its fullest with every instance I take entheogens. I have very little…

This is literally survivorship bias. The people who were suicidal and who took psycadelics that didn't work for them can't comment here. They're dead.

Oh spare me. Not only do I not care to debate pseudo-intellectually in this fashion but my sample size is far beyond myself. Once again, cold cynicism doesn't make you cool. No more than unsubstantiated idealism.
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