Betrayed by an app she had never heard of • Hacker News Board

Re: Betrayed by an app she had never heard of

#61

Post by fredsted » Fri, May 31, 2019, 6:50 AM UTC

RikNieu wrote: post #32

duxup wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mobile numbers are also often the most secure (even if not secure) / only way to contact someone in parts of the world....

True, but for edgecases with no alternative means of contact, there could be other simple solutions. In the articles instance, Chloe could in the future register that sim, and then immediately tag it as Chloe Sullivan on TrueCaller(or whatever app they use in the country in question). Problem solved. Ta-da. There are solutions other than proposing regulations or limitations on apps that benefit waay more people than…

I'd suspect TrueCaller requires at least a few entries for a phone number before permanently labeling it.

Re: Betrayed by an app she had never heard of

#62

Post by grive » Fri, May 31, 2019, 6:55 AM UTC

tsjq wrote: post #11

once I unlist my number from truecaller website (never installed / used their mobile app), would it stop new people from adding my number to their database? ie, I unlist in May2019. i give my number to a new contact of mine in Aug2019. and they use truecaller. would that re-add my name to trucaller database, or would my number stay unlisted forever no matter how many new contacts save my number in their phones with t…

Does unlisting means removing the entry?

Unlisting to me seems like they only stop advertizing that they know your profile.

Re: Betrayed by an app she had never heard of

#63

Post by alanh » Fri, May 31, 2019, 6:58 AM UTC

Wow, is it just me or is this a mountain-out-of-a-molehill situation? This is not fundamentally any different than “report spam” for email, or a user posting “is 800-xxx-xxxx a legit number?” online, or sending a contact card to a few million of your closest friends.

I appreciate the situation that the journalist found herself in, but if she wants her number to be a secret, she needs to make sure the people she calls know that, too.

I will file the information in this article as “good to know,” not “omg disaster”.

Re: Betrayed by an app she had never heard of

#64

Post by DarkWiiPlayer » Fri, May 31, 2019, 7:02 AM UTC

> We reply to TrueCaller to suggest that:

> - They advertise the unlisting option more clearl

> - They send a SMS to any non-user whose number is entered to warn them someone is attempting to enter their number and ask them for consent. This would also be an opportunity to inform them about the unlisting option.

I doubt anything less than that is even really legal in the EU right now. Essentially, if my phone number is entered into that app, my personal data is being digitally processed and maid widely available without my knowledge or consent. Pretty sure that's very much illegal.

Re: Betrayed by an app she had never heard of

#65

Post by mola » Fri, May 31, 2019, 7:09 AM UTC

RikNieu wrote: post #23

I find TrueCaller very usefull. I used to get sooo many sales and robo-calls a day that I seriously considered just getting rid of my phone. Now they get automatically blocked or I can just put them on a profile that they ring silently and hang up immediately. I get that this can be dangerous for journalists, but shouldn't they maybe investigate alternative ways of contacting sources privately? Mobile numbers are not…

If Robocalls are the problem, Truecaller isn't the solution. Regulations against unwanted harassment is. Robocalls are not a force of nature where our only recourse is a technological solution. They are a result of a human choice, where the absolute majority of individual think it's a menace. So our recourse is legal. band-aid solutions like Truecaller cause more problems. The Truecaller product is not a usual commodity where you choose it, and pay a known price. The actual price you pay is totally unknown. Because they require total access to your device without genuine disclosure of their intended use for it.

Re: Betrayed by an app she had never heard of

#66

Post by kkarakk » Fri, May 31, 2019, 7:13 AM UTC

grive wrote: post #59

abtom wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're a non-user and do not wish your information to appear on the app, you can unlist your number here - https://www.truecaller.com/unlisting Though I do not agree with the method where as a non-user I need to manually opt-out of the service, it does seem to work. My number is no longer visible on the app.

Unlisting does not mean that the info is removed. If they have full access on anyone having installed the app, it means they also have mined the conversations with your contacts. So they might not advertise what they know anymore, but the privacy concern remains anyway.

Yes but atleast you're not visible to others edit: so in order to use this, you have to install the app - "deactivate it" and only then will it accept the unlisting. Fucking bs

Re: Betrayed by an app she had never heard of

#67

Post by DarkWiiPlayer » Fri, May 31, 2019, 7:14 AM UTC

alanh wrote: post #63

Wow, is it just me or is this a mountain-out-of-a-molehill situation? This is not fundamentally any different than “report spam” for email, or a user posting “is 800-xxx-xxxx a legit number?” online, or sending a contact card to a few million of your closest friends. I appreciate the situation that the journalist found herself in, but if she wants her number to be a secret, she needs to make sure the people she calls…

> is it just me or is this a mountain-out-of-a-molehill situation?

It's just you.

The example of the journalist is a very good example of exactly why this is such an extreme issue, but it really starts with the small things. What if you want to call someone, and not tell them your name? well, f#$£ you then, the app already told them. Don't want everyone knowing where you work? well f$%& you again, maybe somebody added that with your name in the app (just as the example of the journalist).

So now you call, say, your beloved grandma and your number shows up as "Henry the drug dealer". Maybe you don't even deal drugs, but someone a) thought it'd be funny or b) wants to hurt your reputation.

Or even worse, imagine you call a company regarding an application for a job. It's already a big enough problem that someone else posting a picture of you doing something stupid while drunk can ruin your chances of getting a job; now we're talking about attaching random, possibly personal, possibly untrue information to your phone number for everyone to see without even informing you.

This isn't a molehill. It's borderline criminal.

Re: Betrayed by an app she had never heard of

#68

Post by Mirioron » Fri, May 31, 2019, 7:15 AM UTC

DarkWiiPlayer wrote: post #64

> We reply to TrueCaller to suggest that: > - They advertise the unlisting option more clearl > - They send a SMS to any non-user whose number is entered to warn them someone is attempting to enter their number and ask them for consent. This would also be an opportunity to inform them about the unlisting option. I doubt anything less than that is even really legal in the EU right now. Essentially, if my phone number…

I'm often critical of GDPR, but stuff like this is why I think it's probably necessary to have.

Re: Betrayed by an app she had never heard of

#69

Post by kkarakk » Fri, May 31, 2019, 7:17 AM UTC

If she's truly after "opsec" then why would she keep using a phone number she's handing out to randos?

Pretty laughable - buy a new sim every week, it's not even hard to do in india/south africa. You can buy a new sim almost instantly from the corner store equivalent. You might get called by the local police if you buy more than 5 a month though - happened to me when i was testing out different carrier's data/sim services and bought 6 sim cards at once in india. They just took down my details and never bothered me again

Re: Betrayed by an app she had never heard of

#70

Post by DarkWiiPlayer » Fri, May 31, 2019, 7:19 AM UTC

shaftway wrote: post #41

RikNieu wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, but for edgecases with no alternative means of contact, there could be other simple solutions. In the articles instance, Chloe could in the future register that sim, and then immediately tag it as Chloe Sullivan on TrueCaller(or whatever app they use in the country in question). Problem solved. Ta-da. There are solutions other than proposing regulations or limitations on apps that benefit waay more people than…

So you're suggesting that it's a user's responsibility to proactively register their number with every single third party caller ID service that exists and ever will exist? And you consider that a "simple solution"? It does not seem unreasonable for a service like TrueCaller to notify people that user-generated information about them is being irrevocably added to a globally public repository.

> It does not seem unreasonable for a service like TrueCaller to notify people that user-generated information about them is being irrevocably added to a globally public repository.

If they live in Europe, as far as I'm aware, they should actually also need the users consent if the information contains anything like a name (which it most likely does) and a way for users to have their personal data erased permanently.

Maybe there's some exception why they don't need to do this; can someone provide some more info on this?