Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ctrl Shift Face: A growing ‘deepfakes’ YouTube channel

theregister.co.uk

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 128 posts

Re: Ctrl Shift Face: A growing ‘deepfakes’ YouTube channel

#41

Post by jdietrich »

gambler wrote: post #31
anbop wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Play deepfake on a TV, point signed camera at it.

Have you ever tried this? The quality will be awful. As far as I'm concerned, the need to use a real camera to capture real light is sufficient to thwart creation of truly convincing fakes.

>Have you ever tried this?

Yes. It used to be the industry standard method for recording TV programmes prior to the invention of videotape recorders. If you know what you're doing and use the right equipment, the generational quality loss is very minor.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinescope

Re: Ctrl Shift Face: A growing ‘deepfakes’ YouTube channel

#42

Post by duxup »

bufferoverflow wrote: post #13
_red wrote: post #8

I would imagine that in the future video encoders will start to automatically include a cryptographic signature every X frames, which then players will become aware of and show an indicator for "original / modified" content.

That wouldn't stop from someone filming a fake video.

It wouldn't, but it is a pretty big hurdle to stage a whole thing for an actual camera.

What you describe has always been possible, but it seems rare.

Re: Ctrl Shift Face: A growing ‘deepfakes’ YouTube channel

#43

Post by petters »

anbop wrote: post #28
gambler wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not thinking this through. The problem isn't that creators can make fake videos (which would be analogous to DRM). Let them. There is no harm in it. The problem is that users have no way of verifying true videos. This can be solved with cryptography, because both parties involved (creators and viewers) would want this to work. In other words, DRM is about forcing everyone to do a thing. Verification is about a…

Play deepfake on a TV, point signed camera at it.

You can have the camera record metadata as well, like focus settings and super speed. That will make it harder.

Re: Ctrl Shift Face: A growing ‘deepfakes’ YouTube channel

#44

Post by ajuc »

gambler wrote: post #22
buildzr wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It'd be too easy to fake, just replace the sensor in an approved camera with your own data feed. And that's assuming it wouldn't be somewhat trivial to dump keys from one or more cameras on the market to create a an easy tool or resignvideo.com... which is a massive assumption. As the movie industry has already seen, cryptography doesn't help you when you push out the keys to everyone. It'd be about as effective as D…

You're not thinking this through. The problem isn't that creators can make fake videos (which would be analogous to DRM). Let them. There is no harm in it. The problem is that users have no way of verifying true videos. This can be solved with cryptography, because both parties involved (creators and viewers) would want this to work. In other words, DRM is about forcing everyone to do a thing. Verification is about a…

There's a video of a politician taking a bribe.

How do you verify it's real? You can't - because the camera of the guy that published it says it's not modified, but it could be just as well a camera recording a display with the fake playing.

Re: Ctrl Shift Face: A growing ‘deepfakes’ YouTube channel

#45

Post by alasdair_ »

buildzr wrote: post #15
tylerhou wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could go on the level of Apple - hardware security chip with presigned bootloader + a chain of trust to boot the OS, and the private key stored in a secure enclave. Then generate a cert for every second of video or so and embed it into the media format. Don’t sign the video if you detect any foreign hardware.

You could try but it'd still be possible to just fake it at the sensor level, essentially so the IC would see your video as the analog signal coming in and encode it as if it were any other image. It's basically the "analog hole" of the video world. If you wanted to do the cheap version of this you could probably set up a screen with proper lighting such that it'd line up well enough that screen and sensor pixels mat…

>If you wanted to do the cheap version of this you could probably set up a screen with proper lighting such that it'd line up well enough that screen and sensor pixels matched closely making it near if not completely impossible to tell a screen was involved.

You could make things more difficult by using multiple cameras (and perhaps some other sensors) to detect a 3D scene rather than just a 2D representation, but I agree that it's all ultimately fakeable.

Re: Ctrl Shift Face: A growing ‘deepfakes’ YouTube channel

#46

Post by fwip »

petters wrote: post #43
anbop wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Play deepfake on a TV, point signed camera at it.

You can have the camera record metadata as well, like focus settings and super speed. That will make it harder.

And you can build a camera that lies about this.

Re: Ctrl Shift Face: A growing ‘deepfakes’ YouTube channel

#48

Post by gambler »

jdietrich wrote: post #41
gambler wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ever tried this? The quality will be awful. As far as I'm concerned, the need to use a real camera to capture real light is sufficient to thwart creation of truly convincing fakes.

>Have you ever tried this? Yes. It used to be the industry standard method for recording TV programmes prior to the invention of videotape recorders. If you know what you're doing and use the right equipment, the generational quality loss is very minor. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinescope

>It used to be the industry standard method for recording TV programmes prior to the invention of videotape recorders.

Back when everything was analog and low-resolution, had noise and artifacts anyway, sure. Do you have a video that compares modern digital 1080p with its best "Kinescoped" version? You have to deal with parallax, mismatched frame frequencies, pixels and differences between natural light and whatever spectrum the source monitor produces. I have never seen a recording of a screen that looked anywhere close in quality to the original in 1080p.

Re: Ctrl Shift Face: A growing ‘deepfakes’ YouTube channel

#49

Post by [deleted] »

SmellyGeekBoy wrote: post #34
BlueTemplar wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, this might make Intel-style rootkit+DRM legally mandatory... welcome to 1984 ! :(

We've been through this whole argument before when HDCP was first proposed. I'd imagine this following exactly the same path.

[deleted]

Re: Ctrl Shift Face: A growing ‘deepfakes’ YouTube channel

#50

Post by HeWhoLurksLate »

BlueTemplar wrote: post #37
SmellyGeekBoy wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We've been through this whole argument before when HDCP was first proposed. I'd imagine this following exactly the same path.

Well, the stakes are much higher now. See how Facebook got roped into having to do moderation !

See how it's much harder for anyone else to replace Facebook now, because they need more staff to start out with?
Post reply on HN