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Ctrl Shift Face: A growing ‘deepfakes’ YouTube channel

theregister.co.uk

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Re: Ctrl Shift Face: A growing ‘deepfakes’ YouTube channel

#21

Post by saagarjha »

ice_nine wrote: post #20

Articles like these make me eager for advances made in the 'authenticity' market. I recently learned of a company called Truepic[0] that specializes in photo and video verification. From the New Yorker article I read: "Truepic, a startup in San Diego, aims at producing a new kind of photograph—a verifiable digital original. Photographs taken with its smartphone app are uploaded to its servers, where they enter a kind…

How does Truepic work? What's stopping me from spoofing sensor data on my client?

Re: Ctrl Shift Face: A growing ‘deepfakes’ YouTube channel

#22

Post by gambler »

buildzr wrote: post #11
_red wrote: post #8

I would imagine that in the future video encoders will start to automatically include a cryptographic signature every X frames, which then players will become aware of and show an indicator for "original / modified" content.

It'd be too easy to fake, just replace the sensor in an approved camera with your own data feed. And that's assuming it wouldn't be somewhat trivial to dump keys from one or more cameras on the market to create a an easy tool or resignvideo.com... which is a massive assumption. As the movie industry has already seen, cryptography doesn't help you when you push out the keys to everyone. It'd be about as effective as D…

You're not thinking this through.

The problem isn't that creators can make fake videos (which would be analogous to DRM). Let them. There is no harm in it. The problem is that users have no way of verifying true videos. This can be solved with cryptography, because both parties involved (creators and viewers) would want this to work.

In other words, DRM is about forcing everyone to do a thing. Verification is about allowing willing participants to check a thing. Different scenarios.

Companies could make tamper-proof sensor modules that do the signing right where it matters. The important thing is to make sure they aren't astronomically priced and don't compromise privacy.

Re: Ctrl Shift Face: A growing ‘deepfakes’ YouTube channel

#23

Post by mises »

_red wrote: post #8

I would imagine that in the future video encoders will start to automatically include a cryptographic signature every X frames, which then players will become aware of and show an indicator for "original / modified" content.

That works great if I'm looking for an official video from the Wall Street Journal, but not if I'm watching Fred's Blog Channel. Also, what if I want to edit something? What if I want to tweak the color profile? Add an effect? Oh, so now adobe software can re-sign something, but not the open-source option?

And as pointed out by another comment, you'd get a modified camera and feed it into the sensor, or modify the firmware. And some guy in China will do a clean-room RE and make little video signers.

The bottom line is it's a cool idea, but I don't think it will work, and I don't think it will stop fake anything.

Re: Ctrl Shift Face: A growing ‘deepfakes’ YouTube channel

#24

Post by mises »

_red wrote: post #8

I would imagine that in the future video encoders will start to automatically include a cryptographic signature every X frames, which then players will become aware of and show an indicator for "original / modified" content.

That works great if I'm looking for an official video from the Wall Street Journal, but not if I'm watching Fred's Blog Channel. Also, what if I want to edit something? What if I want to tweak the color profile? Add an effect? And as pointed out by another comment, you'd get a modified camera and feed it into the sensor, or modify the firmware. And some guy in China will do a clean-room RE and make little video signers.

The bottom line is it's a cool idea, but I don't think it will work, and I don't think it will stop fake anything. Also, most of us complain about code signing when it affects us; why would this be different? Fred the Blogger can't get an "official video signing certificate", which is probably what we would end up with. Or better yet, get the government involved and create a Bureau of Trustworthy Video Sources!

Re: Ctrl Shift Face: A growing ‘deepfakes’ YouTube channel

#25

Post by mises »

knowuh wrote: post #18

Someone has to put a deepfake Zuckerberg video up on Facebook where he forecasts a terrible financial quarter. Maybe that would have some influence about how seriously they take takedown requests.

To any one who reads this, don't actually do that. I wouldn't put it past Facebook to file a serious lawsuit against you. If it spread far enough, you could cause serious damage, and the SEC might even get involved.

Re: Ctrl Shift Face: A growing ‘deepfakes’ YouTube channel

#26

Post by BlueTemplar »

_red wrote: post #8

I would imagine that in the future video encoders will start to automatically include a cryptographic signature every X frames, which then players will become aware of and show an indicator for "original / modified" content.

Yep, this might make Intel-style rootkit+DRM legally mandatory... welcome to 1984 ! :(

Re: Ctrl Shift Face: A growing ‘deepfakes’ YouTube channel

#27

Post by BlueTemplar »

mises wrote: post #25
knowuh wrote: post #18

Someone has to put a deepfake Zuckerberg video up on Facebook where he forecasts a terrible financial quarter. Maybe that would have some influence about how seriously they take takedown requests.

To any one who reads this, don't actually do that. I wouldn't put it past Facebook to file a serious lawsuit against you. If it spread far enough, you could cause serious damage, and the SEC might even get involved.

Too late ! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zCDvOsdL9Q

Re: Ctrl Shift Face: A growing ‘deepfakes’ YouTube channel

#28

Post by anbop »

gambler wrote: post #22
buildzr wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It'd be too easy to fake, just replace the sensor in an approved camera with your own data feed. And that's assuming it wouldn't be somewhat trivial to dump keys from one or more cameras on the market to create a an easy tool or resignvideo.com... which is a massive assumption. As the movie industry has already seen, cryptography doesn't help you when you push out the keys to everyone. It'd be about as effective as D…

You're not thinking this through. The problem isn't that creators can make fake videos (which would be analogous to DRM). Let them. There is no harm in it. The problem is that users have no way of verifying true videos. This can be solved with cryptography, because both parties involved (creators and viewers) would want this to work. In other words, DRM is about forcing everyone to do a thing. Verification is about a…

Play deepfake on a TV, point signed camera at it.

Re: Ctrl Shift Face: A growing ‘deepfakes’ YouTube channel

#29

Post by frosted-flakes »

saagarjha wrote: post #21
ice_nine wrote: post #20

Articles like these make me eager for advances made in the 'authenticity' market. I recently learned of a company called Truepic[0] that specializes in photo and video verification. From the New Yorker article I read: "Truepic, a startup in San Diego, aims at producing a new kind of photograph—a verifiable digital original. Photographs taken with its smartphone app are uploaded to its servers, where they enter a kind…

How does Truepic work? What's stopping me from spoofing sensor data on my client?

Probably nothing. But it solves 99% of the problems it's meant to solve. Casual insurance fraud, for example.

Re: Ctrl Shift Face: A growing ‘deepfakes’ YouTube channel

#30

Post by anbop »

buildzr wrote: post #15
tylerhou wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could go on the level of Apple - hardware security chip with presigned bootloader + a chain of trust to boot the OS, and the private key stored in a secure enclave. Then generate a cert for every second of video or so and embed it into the media format. Don’t sign the video if you detect any foreign hardware.

You could try but it'd still be possible to just fake it at the sensor level, essentially so the IC would see your video as the analog signal coming in and encode it as if it were any other image. It's basically the "analog hole" of the video world. If you wanted to do the cheap version of this you could probably set up a screen with proper lighting such that it'd line up well enough that screen and sensor pixels mat…

You could have onboard acceleration and depth sensors on the camera to make the fake costlier to produce.
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